Mollegabet(ish)

[egstonvonbrick]

Hello folks,

I've been lurking on here for some time and have been posting a bit on the AIUK site with my efforts.

I have made a fair few longbows but thought that for my first post on this auspicious site i'd go for something i've been wanting to try for sometime...

My interpreation of a Mollegabet...

This was going to be a joyful post of great success, but the perfidious archery gods were against me

But i'll post up my efforts anyway... nothing ventured...

I still have hopes of a resurection... more to follow...

Cheers
Ev

[egstonvonbrick]

Well here goes...

After churning out a constant stream of longbows from small 11# kids bows upto 70# my bowmaking mojo was running low...

So a new challenge was required... i'll be back to longbows, when i've got some wood other than Ash to play with (well i do - but need to practice my splicing skills)... and have always likes these Neolithic Holmegaard and Mollegebat things...

A chunk of Ash that was too short for a decent longbow was selected and for months i've been scribbling shapes on it and getting nowhere... so today the sun was out and i just thought, what the chuff... lets crack on...

For those that don't know this is a Neolithic design found in Denmark, it differs from the Holmegaard by the fact that only the inner limbs bend, the tips being whittled awasy till they just remain stiff... the Holmegaard has the lovely tapering, leaf shaped limbs.
(Note: I'm sure all you chaps know this stuff, but i'm pasting from a site where the DIY section is at the perfiery compared to this site - so apologies)

First thoughts are... pheww what a lot of effort, i could have knocked out about two longbows from the same chunk of wood and with the time taken so far made about four!

So i'm struggling to think why they would make a bow like this... especially when i believe they have found these made of yew...

Well enough rambling and on with some pics... and details...

Cos i'm a coward i went for about 72" tall, the bending inner limbs are 18" long by 2.5" and currently 3/5" thick... i went wide and long as its my first and these dimensions will hopefully get me to a working bow... i will then remake with what i've learnt a more efficient one.

Current feelings are that even at this thickness they are overworking the handle so will review during floor tiller and am thinking that the final thickness will be about 3/8" and the width may sneak down half an inch...

Pic1 - Molley Billet: Roughed out: Nice and chunky...


Pic2 - Molly: From this you can hopefully start to gauge the effort in reducing the wood to shape, have never had to shape an internal radius on a bow before and without a funky bandsaw its a lot or rasping... and back ache!


Pic3 and 4 - Getting there: Hopefully from these pics the 'aesthetic' is coming through, i find it a very pleasing shape, may get thinner and less deep... hopefully



The dividers are coming in very useful, i'm also going for an ever so-slightly crowned back and deeper on the back, don't ask me why. I did ponce around for ages with sums and stuff trying to perfect the design and then just decided to hack-away and seem to be getting somewhere... and my mojo is back!

Still deciding whether to heat treat the belly and have bought some linen as i feel a 'plastic' string wouldn't suit her... as you can see i'm already quite attached to her!

Cheers
Ev

[egstonvonbrick]

Well,

So here we have a picture of Mesolithic man at work and her at floor-tiller... not really sure what it's showing and apologies for poor picture...


...the Megatron may be all powerful but she can operate a camera as well as my cat!

Shhhh, she may hear!

Thankfully after a frightful amount of effort i think i have enought meat for a working bow... Huzzah!

Cheers
Ev

[lesken2011]

Great progress, so far. Can't wait to see the next step!!

[egstonvonbrick]

Oh well, there goes tens of hours down the pan...

Tillering had begun, was taking it easy and increasing to brace height, so far she was looking good (~45#).
I was gently exercising her and... a sickening 'scriiiiitch' noise was heard!

Seems the back has lifted, some pics and thoughts below...

Pic1) Post 'Scriiitch' i had a shufty, saw some wood had lifted from the back. It was coming along so nicely... there were hinges either side of the handle but this was in hand and i was gently removing wood from the middle/outer limbs: left hand limb shows this, right limb shows larger hinge, just where she blew...


Pic2) Here you can see where the back has 'lifted', this is opposite the final transition from the fade to the parrallel 'paddle' limb on the belly.


Pic 3) Belly side - taper is about where the incident is on the back...


To say i'm a bit sad (sniff) is an understatement, i thought wide thin limbs would be a doddle!
(the chunky outer limbs i'd left chunky and the plan was that once i had the bow tillered these were to be slimmed down so they were 'just stiff')

But, all is not lost, i've been pulling her and the cracking has stopped, so i think i will attempt some remedial work to halt any further splitting (gluing and binding) and will then slim the limbs down and fair bit to about 35# and see if i can retreive a bow from her.
The amount of effort she's taken it would be sad to just chuck her on the fire and i have become really attached to the aesthetic of these bows!

I'll have another go but may go for a Holmegaard first then back to a Molly - did think i'll just go and make some more longbows but nope... i'll stay in the Meslothinc for a while longer!

So apologies for my ramblings and any thoughts, advice, greatfully received... hopefully i will get something from her and will post up my efforts

Cheers
Ev

[egstonvonbrick]

Thanks for the interest... you won't have to wait long!

I'm now really atatched to her and am fighting to keep her alive!

Was going to make up for it and churn a few more longbows out, but the Mesolithic has its hold on me!

I also need to work out how to knap flint without blinding myslef!

Cheers
Ev

[randman]

I hate it when that happens! It was looking so good. Weep some thin super glue into that crack and back that thing with some linen or rawhide and you can probably keep going. I've seen linen hold worse than that together. Gives you a canvas to paint some neolithic artwork on also.

[okiecountryboy]

What randman said.
I had a lift bigger than that on my molle, pumped it full of superglue ( as suggested by Half Eye) and she 's still goin.
BTW Thanks again Rich.
Once you get bit by the molle bug, it lasts quite a while!

Ron

[PatM]

Back looks too rough to be bending it. You need to follow a ring or polish the back up well and burnish it before bending.
 All those nicks in the back are stress points waiting to open up.
 Definitely need a better distributed bend too.

[egstonvonbrick]

Chaps,

Thanks for your thoughts...

>>Back
Yep it does look a lot rougher in that pic than it did in my dimly lit indoor-shed, will tidy it all up.

>>Bending
The tiller pic was pulled back further than i had got before the split and i was starting to remove wood from mid to outer limb to get her bending evenly.

(as the limbs stood 18" long and half an inch thick i was seeming to be heading for 45#)

Now i'll soldier on, glue/bind the crack and whittle away to hopefully get a working bow - but i doubt i'll  get beyond 30#.

>>Backing
For some daft reason i don't like the idea of backing and laminates, more fool me!
Maybe if i was allowed to hunt with a bow... the 'working' bit would be higher than my 'selfbow' requirements!

Again thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers
Ev

[DarkSoul]

That bow will be saved, I'm sure.

Here's my advice:
- Superglue the splinter down.
- Sand the entire back with a sanding block and 80 grit sandpaper to remove all nicks.
- Apply a patch of sinew at the splinter, or do a binding of glue soaked thread.
- Remove wood from 5" past the handle fade, up to the lever. It needs to bend smoother without those hinges near the handle.
- Cut off 1"  of both tips. That'll make the bow 70" long; plenty for 28"  or draw.
- Tiller to 45#. No reason why it shouldn't make it...
- Narrow and thin down the levers. They are currently overbuilt a lot, but that's OK for now. Just reduce them when tillering has finished.

[egstonvonbrick]

DarkSoul,

Yep thanks and that was my plan... before it went wrong I will now spend some time sorting out the back and splinter.

The tips i know are chunky but i was - as you say - leaving these alone for now and the plan was to then reduce them signiifcantly until ther were 'just stiff'.

Thanks all for the encourgement - nice to have some interest - the UK site i post on gets little reposnse to such things so any input is much appreciated.

Hopefully i'll have more to post soon!

Also, I really need to try and get some decent wood - this was from a chunk of Ash board that wasn't suitable for longbows... please rememer i'm a cheapsakete and i'm finding it hard to source decent 'boards' from lumber yards... I feel i may just have to ponce soem cash on some Hickory... have also tried Ash logs and again getting decent wood is a struggle.

Cheers
Ev

[blackhawk]

uh oh..careful with molly...shes a temptress and a seductress lady. looks like you got plenty of good advice..and it looks like you learned a lesson with this design...ive seen this happen a lot to guys with this design with splinters in that same exact area. that area is a super high stress spot,and if you hinge it your more than likely to lift a splinter even if your back is perfectly sanded n smoothed down. i always work up into my fades last as i finish up tillering out the last couple of inches. this ensures i dont have this happen. its a fine line and delicate balance tillering these out. salvage this one and make another 

[Del the cat]

Good to have you on board EV.
These guys have been there done that.
Del
(Only just spotted the thread)

[egstonvonbrick]

Chaps,

After being distracted by another batch of Ash ELB selfbows i finally turned my attention back to Mrs Molly sitting unwanted in the corner...

All your sage advice was taken onboard and i; braced and dribbled some superglue into the splinter and clamped. On removing the clamp the splinter was visible but was perfectly back in position. I then wound some epoxy soaked linen over the splinter and for aesthetic reasons did the same t'other end as well (may also help prevent a similar thing happening).

Then started to whittle away... was worried about draw weight slipping away from me and couldn't stop myslef fiddling and fettling.
I also lopped 1.5" of each end and have finally told myself to stop before i end up with just a floppy bendy stick!

She now weighs in at 42# @28" which is better than i was hoping for at one point... i can see some issues... but 'discretion being the better part of valour' am stopping here as i have a working bow and will use what i've learnt on the next one!

Final pic after fettling and lopping of 3" for final pin nocks...


My first pin nock...


For a finish... i don't want anthing frilly... and have decidied against an arrow pass or a grip and will just finish in the most traditional thing i have which may be linseed oil or just plain wax and a linen string.

Again, many thanks for the advice!

Now will hopefully see how well she shoots!

Quick resume; (so i will know where to start for the next one!)
Ash - no backing, no heat treating.
72" Nock to nock
17" x 2.5" x 3/8" parallel limbs
2" fades
5" handle ~1.25 wide and deep.

Cheers
Ev