Author Topic: Central European Crossbow Project  (Read 58918 times)

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Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2012, 11:09:17 am »
Thanks for the kind Words, Del. I appreciate critisism and suggestions, actually.

Regarding the bolt clip, yes, it pivots 180 degress entirely out of the way, and is only there to lightly hold the bolt into place when the weapon is spanned and ready to shoot. When I do some testing shots and videos, I will make sure and get some pictures of all this.

I do agree, it maybe would have looked better to have it taper a bit and mirror the shape of the tiller, even.

Medieval composite crossbow prods are amazing creatures, very complex, and maybe one day I will start to learn to make those. I dont think anyone in the world makes real ones for any amount of money, though, and it would be a devlish learning curve. But very tempting.

Today, I am making crossbow strings. Big, fat things they are, and the jigs I made seem to be doing the trick nicely. Soon, I will be ready to start shooting this bow. And I already have my next few projects planned out. For me personally, this stuff is way more addictive than bow making.
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2012, 12:59:54 pm »
I really love following/reading your thread Dane...kinda getting me sucked into this little world of yours (I need a new interest/hobby like a hole in the head but...)  Do you have any pics or drawings of the next upcoming projects on your table?  How about any books or detailed reference material for these type of projects...or are you doing 99% of the builds based off a simple pic and such?  Would love to hear what your process is from choosing a build to designing/laying it out and figuring out the guts/components.  Thanks!!!  Oh and the keep the pics coming my friend...
~ Lee

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"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
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Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2012, 06:04:18 pm »
Thanks so much, Lee. These kinds of comments really help motivate me to keep producing.

My little world, as you so aptly put it, can be viewed as kind of strange, but it keeps me honest and out the trouble.

I get my inspirations from a ton of sources, and try to keep my mind and eyes open to new ideas and new inspirations. One of the single great English language books on crossbows is by Sir. Ralph Payne-Gallwey, "The Book of the Crossbow." It is a 19th century work by this wealthy guy who dabbled in crossbows and other stuff, Roman seige engines, and other things. He isn't totally reliable, and can show an ugly jingoisitic side to him that is part of his life and times, but overall, it is a good work, available cheap as a Dover reprint, and worth having. There are some good websites such as arbalist guild, a site much like this, full of cool folks, some also members of PA (Orcbow is one, remember him?. Frode is another. My name over there is stoneagebowyer, so come over and say hi). Museum photos are another source of weapons worth looking and getting ideas from.

The late Roman bow I am about to start is a wierd little weapon, and comes from 2 sculputures found in France / Gaul. Stubby, no stirrup, the rear of the tiller has a kind of turned handle thingie sticking out, and the tickler is bent pretty radically down below the handle. I am basing the way I am going to make the handle on a 2nd century Roman spatha replica I have here, and it should look nice



The wood I plan to use will be flame birch for the tiller, and the table surface maybe using bloodwood or some other exotic tropical. I doubt the Romans had tropical hardwoods, but this is not a replica, as that would have to be made of stone lol. Probably a purist would nash their teeth, but I am not making an exact anything, but something based on what I find interesting at during the hear and now.

Later, I want to build a nice stubby cavalry bow, with a curved down tiller, again based upon real examples, but not any one in particular. There are a number of regional styles of tillers, but no hard and fast rules or lines that you can or cant cross.

After that, a gastrophetes, which is really a small catapult, but it hurls a big bolt, and should be cool and fun to shoot. The espringal is on the table, and I should get to that probably this or next year.

Here are a few more photos. A few hopefuly will show the bolt clip in action. The clip simply keeps the bolt on the weapon, and is pushed aside when you want to shoot.







Last, a couple of pictures of my sting making jigs.





Simple stuff, as a crossbow string is a fat thing, much fatter than a bow string. The endless string method is the way I do them, and have a jig for tension as i serve the center serving. I am starting to make my strings using B50, though I will try fastflight and see how that performs. The one on the jig is linen. Later, I should do a posting just on string making.


That last shot shows the gut that I used to secure the rolling nut into the socket. This serves only one purpose, and that is to keep the nut from popping out as you shoot.

More soon guys, including testing and shooting vids and photos. I still have tiny little things to do, such as covering the tickler pin with bone inserts, but other than that, the weapon is ready to string and be tested and shot in. Thanks to all of you who shared this journey thus far.

Dane
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 06:12:04 pm by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline vabowyer

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2012, 10:33:19 pm »
I really need a laith.  when I made a nut last year, I carved the stupid thing round by hand.  took forever.  your project looks pretty good.  I have had, in the back of my mind, the idea of doing a comosite crossbow, but I never seem to find the time to get it started.

jamie

Patrik Jonsson

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2012, 05:19:52 am »
Hi, long time lurker, first time poster... Just thought I would give you a tip on making the bindings that (at least for me) cuts down on the ugly words quite a lot. I made a lillöhus crossbow some time back and initially found out that the thread for the prod binding WANTS to tangle, but if you take the sneaky aproach and keep it on the roll, it works a lot better...

First of you need some kind of spool holder for your roll of thread. (I used a piece of board with a 5 inch dowel in it. Kind of like a holder for paper rolls.
Place this next to the crossbow and start by pulling a loop of thread through the binding hole. Pull the loop over the end of the prod then pull the end coming from the roll of thread thight. Loop the string over the other end of the prod, pull tight and repeat from the begining until satisfied.

Using this method, at the most you have to fight a couple of feet of thread at a time, the rest will still be on the spool. It can still tangle (trust me on this...) but it is a lot less likely and easier to untangle.

/Patrik

Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2012, 04:28:58 pm »
Jamie, making a nut by hand like that would drive me nuts.
Patrik, thanks for the advice. Doing more bindings will make it less unpleant from practice alone, and your idea sounds good. I will give it a try one day. I just picked up some yellowheart, jatoba, tiger maple, canary wood, flame birch and ambrosia maple that is destined for four or more crossbows.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #81 on: March 09, 2012, 04:36:44 pm »
I just picked up some yellowheart, jatoba, tiger maple, canary wood, flame birch and ambrosia maple that is destined for four or more crossbows.

Dane

Oh yummy!!!  Can't wait to see what comes from that list of "eye candy" wood!
~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
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Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #82 on: March 09, 2012, 05:21:38 pm »
Lee, the flame birch and tiger maple are first up. I'm building a earlier medieval bow with a bolt groove, and brass or rawhide lock plates. THe maple will be for the top surface of the tiller. Im going to probably pin the maple to the birch with buffalo horn dowels, should look delicious, and put a high gloss finish on this one. I have a 100 lb. prod set aside for this one. I'm starting this project this weekend, and will really keep track of how long this bow will take to build, as I lost track last time.
Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #83 on: March 09, 2012, 05:39:32 pm »
Dane, that sounds like a really gorgeous wood combo.  Toss in the horn pics and maybe a like colored polished rawhide plates and  :o  >:D WOW!

Where do you pick up your wood, somewhere local so you can inspect it or online?
~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2012, 09:31:51 pm »
Lee, on page two is a photo of my hardwood dealer. Anyone who loves wood would have a glorious time here. They are the nicest people in the world, and the stock is just amazing, and changing all the time. It is so nice to pick out wood by hand, for bows or for any other projects. The place is only about 5 miles from my house. Before I discoverd this dealer, I was driving about 65 - 70 miles one way for my hardwood.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline jpitts

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2012, 03:39:39 am »
Wow Dane,
I'm absolutely blown away by how beautiful the walnut and bone came out. This thread is addictive. Is that an old German "CAT" knife I see in a couple of pics? Those are very collectible I'm told.
I'm curious as to why you decided to use a piece of gut to hold the nut in instead of pining it.  Maybe you said and I didn't catch it.   :o I had a lot of catching up to do.   ;D
Can't wait to see the vids when you get them. Thanks for going to all the trouble with this thread. It's been great.
Jimmy / Dallas, Georgia

Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2012, 01:13:29 pm »
Thanks, Jimmy.

The black walnut did come out great, and the contrast to the bone is just excellent. The cord binding is called nussfaden The rolling nut isn’t pinned into the socket at all, and rotates freely. The purpose of the nussfaden is to keep the nut from oscillating and popping out of the socket as you shoot it. The problem with steel axels or pins is that they can bend if the socket isn’t very tight, and you have to account for wood swelling and shrinking and having a stuck nut :) Historically, many crossbows used binding cord. I’ve used artificial sinew in the past, but it wears too fast (and doesn't look quiet natural, being nylon), so gut is a much better material.

Yup, that is a Cat 55 knife, my everyday pocketknife. This is a newly made one, btw.

The delay in finishing this thread is this: I’m putting together a spanning tree, which consists of a couple of 4x4s bolted into a cross shape, with two heavy hardwood dowels set into the cross member, a few inches aft from the prod tips. I’m using a 1.5 ton pneumatic jack to do the stringing from now on, as it is way easier and safer than other methods. For a 200+ pound bow, a hand pulled bastard string is just impossible; I should have eaten more vegetables in my youth, maybe, and hate canned raw spinach. I suspect Popeye was pushing some propaganda on us kids there.

I’ve got a 750 lb. crossbow commission in the works, so the 3000 pounds capacity will be very handy. Bracing that bow is going to epic and terrifying :).

The vids though will happen soon.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline jpitts

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #87 on: March 20, 2012, 01:35:50 pm »
Holy Moly.....sure you don't need a suit of armor to string that thing?
Get us some pics of that too.
Jimmy / Dallas, Georgia

Offline Dane

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2012, 04:26:05 pm »
The last thing you will ever see of me is grainy video footage of hand-forged steel, walnut and bone shrapnel flying in all directions, followed by a scream and a thud.

I only kid about 95%, though I am considering pulling out my old flak vest and wearing a helmet for that task. That is going to be a very challenging project, which I have already begun. The client is providing an authentic medieval steel prod forged by one of the top makers in Germany, with the rolled ear prod tips. I am pulling out all the stops on that one, and will post on that project in the near future. It will have fully reinforced prod socket, steel reinforced nut ears, and a bone lined, reinforced prod socket. The string will have to rate at least at 3,000 pounds breaking strength, with extra thrown in for good measure. The trigger sear and tickler will be heat treated, as well. The only modern technologies I am using for that project are a drill press for boring accurate holes and modern epoxies, so it will be as close to an actual medieval weapon as you will be able to find. I’ve even got an order in for hemp rope made with long strand fibers, far better stuff than you can get from Walmart of a craft store.

I think I am going to find some steel or iron pegs for the spanning rack, considering the kind of forces I will be dealing with soon. I can’t even imagine what kind of performance such a high-power bow will produce yet. But we will find out. :)

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Gus

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Re: Central European Crossbow Project
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2012, 04:56:33 pm »
Dane, that sounds Pretty Darn KOOL!

A weapon like that would be worthy of punching Richard the Lion Heart's Ticket...

:)

-gus
"I taught him archery everyday, and when he got good at it he throw an arrow at me."

Conroe, TX