Few locust q's

[footfootfoot]

As a woodworker and furniture maker for a couple of decades I am sort of amused and sort of depressed by the amount of myth, voodoo, and witchcraft I read about wood on the internet. I'd highly recommend two books by R. Bruce Hoadley: Understanding Wood and Identifying Wood. They're a bit on the scientific side, and decidedly non-primitive, but they will have facts to either back up your theories or knock them down.

[Elktracker]

Well footfootfoot what are the facts? I dont wanna buy the book so tell us

Josh

[Gus]

Added those books to my "To Read" list...

Thank You!

Can you not also speed the curing process by steaming the whole Bow/Stave?
Take it down to bow dimensions and floor tiller, seal it with tung oil, then steam the whole bow?
I've got Black Locust in mind with this question, followed by Osage and Mulberry.

Thank Y'all!

-gus

[PEARL DRUMS]

I tell you what fellers. This black locust was cut in October with most of the sap down. I split it and sealed the ends that day. I peeled and sealed the back a few days ago. I have a bow building friends gathering in mid-January. I am going to build a bow form this stave then and I will record what relfex I started with and what I get after shoot in. Plus lost draw weight and early string tension. We shall see what matters and what doesnt on this stave. I am going to do nothing special to dry this stave other than what I have so far. Peel and seal, sit it down in my shop as usual and one momth from now my buddys Mattw, Blackhawk and old timber bows are going to help/watch this thing turn into a bow. I will give a full report in January upon the bows completion. I guess I have built enough now I dont mind experimenting for the better cause. If I lose one I lose one.

[blackhawk]

     

I tell ya what chris....take a stave down to floor tiller,then shellac the whole stave,steam it into shape,and then make sure the shellac is still sealed,you might have to reseal after steaming,and then stick it in that heating duct ,and keep an eye on it and weigh it once a week recording your numbers,and leave it in there until you leave your house for martys.....and I bet that sucker will be dry by then. That gives ya a month till then. Use shellac n shellac only tho.

Can't wait to see this in person 

[blackhawk]

Let me state some findings and nonconclusive results yet here,but ill share with what I have found out so far as to quick drying various types of wood.

Whenever I harvest a species ill take one or two staves and reduce them to floor tiller(bending no more than 6",and def no more than 8")..it seems the 8" mark or around there is when dripping wet green wood starts to take set. I then write that date down onto the piece of wood the day i floor tillered it and ill weigh it immedietly and record its starting weight. Then once a week ill weigh the stave recording that number. Then its just a waiting game of when it stops losing moisture.

Here's a list of the woods I've been experimenting with in quick drying.......all these have been harvested by my own two hands

Osage....yew....black locust...hophornbeam....american hornbeam...hickory...eastern red cedar...elm...rosebay rhododendron....serviceberry......I might be forgetting one or two....but here's my point.


Out of all these woods ill start with the slowest

Osage...by a milestone it loses its moisture slower than any other...but it can be quick dried CAREFULLY..and needs to be closely monitered and babied

Hickory....its a dog that loves to slobber and salivate with moisture..lol

HHB and american hornbeam....it seems so dense from its compact grain and small ring structure that it like to hold onto moisture as well...but my record from stump to shooting bow is 36 days with an american hornbeam...and yes it was dry because I heat treated it deeply with no checks.


Serviceberry...not too many comments...just average


Elm....it dries pretty quick when reduced


Rhododendron...its the wettest wood when cut...literally dripping wet...but dries farily quickly and the back should be sealed after debarking


The next are all fairly close and might surprise you


BLACK LOCUST...when the bark and sapwood is removed it'll lose moisture at a very rapid rate..it surprised me big time. But if the bark and sapwood is left on it really holds onto its moisture.

Yew...yup I said it ....yew. it can be quick dried n must be carefully monitored,but if debarked and reduced to floor tiller it loses its moisture fast....so fast it'll want to move in every which way on ya....so if ya don't mind heat corrections then go for it.


Eastern red cedar....enough said there...I believe juniper wood fall into this category as well since its a juniper.


Hope this helps some folks and opens up some discussion

[Buckeye Guy]

Well here you go!
I could spend a few days telling you youngsters the difference between dry wood and seasoned wood but when we were done it really wouldn't make much difference to you !! So I ain't gonna do it!
Bottom line is this Gary Davis cut down a Osage tree and 14 days later he had a finished bow that was as good as most folks only hope to be able to get no matter how they go about it !
That is not to say it was as good of a bow as it would have been if it was seasoned ! Just that it was a fine bow done by a fine Boyer !
The difference in dry vs seasoned wood is an advantage to some folks and a disadvantage to some!
Keep on pressing on for its in the learning that we get the greatest benefits even more so than the benefits of what is learned!
Have fun my friends
Guy

[PEARL DRUMS]

Good info Chris. I may add to your numbers after we give this stave a test run. Its narrow at 1 1/2" max, so it will be a 68" bow. I am going to rough it down and reflex as you mentioned. We will have a bow in an hour OR SO at Martys............or we wont! This thread turned out to be much better than I imagined it would. My simpe questions just wrote volume 5 of TBB!!

[Elktracker]

I agree I have enjoyed following allong with this thread! Great info from different perspectives!

Josh

[mullet]

This has been fun reading this, but I have to go along with Pat and Pappy. I've been gifted with some fine osage staves and roughed out bows that are old, black and seasoned. And to me there is a big difference working the wood and a tiller that doesn't suprise you or change and less set. I'll be posting one in a few days that was a Gary Davis blank from 1995. I was hoping triple foot would tell us what the book says so we don't have to buy it.

[blackhawk]

Other than osage or yew...I think that most whitewoods actually benefit better from being reduced asap and getting the moisture out of them asap. Those woods don't have the rot resisting chemicals that osage and yew have. The sooner you get the fungi eating moisture out of it the better....why do you think the ole timers said whitewoods were crap....prob cus they seasoned them like osage and yew. Ill take a piece of whitewood that's only a month old,but down to 8% mc any day over a piece that the bark was left on and left to season like osage. I don't think there's a difference between a two year old HHB stave to a month old stave that are both at 8%mc. That wood doesn't know it s moisture was reduced a month or 5 years.

Yes osage n yew can be rushed and made into a bow....but my preference is seasoned wood as well with those woods. It seems like the oils in them also need to dry out as well as the moisture and those oils prevent it from seasoning quickly. And seasoned osage seems to be more bend resistant,and more low set,which leads to a lil more early draw tension in the bows performance. I have several staves from three diff trees that are 15-20 years old,and all made killer awesome low set early tension draw bows. But again I think a lot of whitewoods actually benefit from being more quick dried.

[blackhawk]

Hey chris....im already a few weeks ahead of ya...I've had a floor tillered black locust stave in my heating duct since Nov. 21...lol ....now I tell ya..hehehe .

[mullet]

This may sound strange but I'm kinda thinking along the lines I did when I was building fibreglass trucks and surfboards. When I was building boards I could lighten the weight by using less MEK and not cutting the resin with Styrene and really slow it down by using no Cobalt. All uses a lot of heat to speed the curing process up, but it made the glass real brittle. Even in combinations it changes the degree of strength in the glass.

 JMO I think letting certain woods cure naturally helps the resins solidifie slowly and make the wood stronger instead of cooking it fast.

[footfootfoot]

Well footfootfoot what are the facts? I dont wanna buy the book so tell us

Josh

Facts? Let's don't get carried away. There are no facts only Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.   

Seriously, the book is 254 pages, the chapter on water and wood is 20 pages. I bet it can be found used online or gotten through interlibrary loan.

There is so much information I wouldn't know where to start.

I know next to nothing about bowyering so at this point I'm gonna shut up and listen for a while.

[Elktracker]

Ok fine , Well if you hang out on this site long enough you will know allot!

Josh