Dreaded tick and my plan of action *updated*

[Matt S.]

*updated* see post #12 below

I've been working on my first backed bow which is also my first reflexed (Perry reflexed) bow. Hickory backed Maple. Pulled it to 27" on the tiller tree 100+ times, shot a few arrows through it (excellent cast!), sanded it down, then pulled it to 28" on the tree a few times before hearing *tick* !
I'll post some photos of the splinters that have appeared on the hickory backing. They are small, so I'm hopeful I can save the bow.
Here's my plan of action:
1) glue down entire back with diluted TBIII while the bow is strung.
2) sand back down
3) back entire bow with silk
4) wrap areas with splinters with thread set in glue (and the matching areas on the other limb to visually balance it out).

Does this sound good?

Here's the bow braced:


The splinters on the back:


And maybe someone can help me, I'm not sure what kind of Maple this is. I had 3 Maple boards, 2 from Home Depot and one from Menards. The first two were very light and made decent bows but ended up chrysalling. This board was physically heavier and has a lot of red flakes in it. Any idea of what species it could be? Here's a close up of the wood:


And finally one last question about Perry Reflexing. I understand reflexing a bow adds strain to the limbs. I also understand that Perry Reflexing reduces strain in limbs because energy is now being stored internally. So, in general, is a Perry reflexed bow under, say 50% (just throwing a number out here) less strain than a normally reflexed bow, or does the Perry reflex nullify the extra strain inherent in a reflexed design?

[Badger]

  Hard to say for sure but the types of crack you are showing look like what you may see if the limb is just overstarined. How wide and long is the bow? Are you showing a hinge in the area where the crack appeared? The board looks to be 1/4 sawn so possibly just that one ring is weak. If it doesn't hinge you may be ok.

[George Tsoukalas]

Matt, if the chrysals are spread out over the whole limb it is a design problem--too narrow or too short for the weight and the draw. Not much to do for that. If the chrysals are localized it is a tiller problem. The limb is bending too much. Leave the chrysalled area alone and retiller that limb above and below. Tiller the other limb to match. I have had some success by gluing on a rawhide patch over the chrysals to compensate for my bad  tiller. The fix for the splinter sounds good. Be careful. That's 2 things wrong with one bow. Don't get too attached. Jawge

[Matt S.]

The bow was pulling about 42# at 27". The bow is 64" tip-to-tip and is tillered with a very slightly rigid handle, but the entire bow is working. No visible hinges. I was more worried about the Maple fretting than the Hickory giving way! But, I think the Hickory did have a few flaws, slight run-offs 3/4 way towards the tip and a couple of pin knots. I thought the Hickory would be able to handle it, but like I said this is a learning bow for me.

I ordered 2 yards of silk from an online vendor (very reasonable prices) and will see what happens. I have another bow I may "bring back from the dead" depending on the outcome of this experiment.

Edit: I glued 2.5" of reflex into the bow and it stands at 2.25" of reflex as of now.

[Matt S.]

Matt, if the chrysals are spread out over the whole limb it is a design problem--too narrow or too short for the weight and the draw. Not much to do for that. If the chrysals are localized it is a tiller problem. The limb is bending too much. Leave the chrysalled area alone and retiller that limb above and below. Tiller the other limb to match. I have had some success by gluing on a rawhide patch over the chrysals to compensate for my bad  tiller. The fix for the splinter sounds good. Be careful. That's 2 things wrong with one bow. Don't get too attached. Jawge

This bow didn't have any chrysals, much to my surprise due to my past experience with Maple. Just the splinter in the back.

[Prarie Bowyer]

If it were me, and it's not, but if it were I'd dilute the TBIII a tad and brush the back while strung, then unstring it to let it dry.  that way you get some up in the splinters.  Then back the bow unstrung.

To be honest I don't understand NOT backing a bow.  We spend so much time on these, or I do, and often buy wood for them, why not give ourselves the best chances of success.

Oh but you are hickory backed.  Is it heart wood or sap wood?  I've hickory backed two bows and in general am not overly impressed with hickory backing.

[Matt S.]

If it were me, and it's not, but if it were I'd dilute the TBIII a tad and brush the back while strung, then unstring it to let it dry.  that way you get some up in the splinters.  Then back the bow unstrung.

To be honest I don't understand NOT backing a bow.  We spend so much time on these, or I do, and often buy wood for them, why not give ourselves the best chances of success.

Oh but you are hickory backed.  Is it heart wood or sap wood?  I've hickory backed two bows and in general am not overly impressed with hickory backing.

I did just that, wiped the entire back down with diluted TBIII (while strung). I'm not sure if any got *into* the crack since it is so darn small and it only "lifted" at 28", and I sure as heck wasn't going to pull it that far again just to try to get some glue in there

I think this piece of hickory is mostly sapwood but there is a dark streak of heartwood running through it. Not a perfect piece but I've made bows from red oak boards with worse backs that are as dependable as my morning visit to the bathroom. I guess it's all a crapshoot sometimes

[George Tsoukalas]

My mistake. Sorry. I read your post before my nap and now I see other bows chrysalled. Jawge

[footfootfoot]

If the maple is significantly heavier and harder to work it may be Acer Saccharum, Sugar Maple aka Rock Maple. There are a number of maples that get into the market and especially at places like Home Despot it can be just about anything including Alder sold as maple.

That ray fleck looks like Sugar Maple to me, but it isn't enough to make a solid ID.

Good luck.

[Matt S.]

If the maple is significantly heavier and harder to work it may be Acer Saccharum, Sugar Maple aka Rock Maple. There are a number of maples that get into the market and especially at places like Home Despot it can be just about anything including Alder sold as maple.

That ray fleck looks like Sugar Maple to me, but it isn't enough to make a solid ID.

Good luck.

Thanks, I know it's sort of a gamble when buying maple from the big box stores, never know what you're going to get. There's a good chance this one is sugar maple just due to its weight compared to the other boards. I wish I weighed the boards before shaping them. One of the lighter ones, probably a soft maple (red, silver?) made a pretty sweet shooting bow but fretted. If I had tillered it perfectly it won't have chrysalled, so I think some of the soft maples may actually make decent medium weight bows... they are just unforgiving of tillering mistakes.

[crooketarrow]

  I have had good luck (along time back) with just super glueing  the whole back sand with 0000 still wood add another coat. I did one bow 2 times and another bow 3 times. Both problely still liveing. I know both were still shooting 5 years later made the bows in 02.

[Dazv]

i would go for the silk backing.

[Matt S.]

I ordered some silk and it came in yesterday, so guess what I did when I got home from work?

Cut a strip of silk long enough to back the entire bow and glued it down with TBIII. Put a couple of coats of thinned glue over the whole thing and trimmed and sanded the edges this morning, then reglued the edges with thinned down glue. Got home from work today and pulled her 100 times to full draw on the tree; didn't hear any ticks, cracks, or creaks
Put a couple dozen arrows through her and no signs of failure.

A note about the silk, it is sold as "100% pure raw silk". I didn't realize there were different types of silk until it came in and looked just like any linen or plant fibre fabric. Then did a quick search of "raw silk" on these forums and found where Pat B said his only osage bow that chrysalled had a raw silk backing. Not sure if that's the same stuff as this, but I didn't see any chrysals in this bow after pulling it and shooting with it. Even kept 1.5" of reflex immediately after unbracing it

I'll get her finished up over the next few days and post again if I like the finish job enough.

Thanks for all the advice guys!!!

[soy]

Best of luck can't wait to see the finished product