New strategy for Vogel style R/D bow.

[Prarie Bowyer]

Ok, So I've been basically obsessed with this bow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvODiVPCPqM

I love the lines and deceptive simplicity of it.  It SEEMS like the center has this extra swollen bulge under the bamboo.  I found an article by the Maker in "The bow builders book" in which he shows a pic of a stave with a shallow triangle left on the stave.  My photobucket account is not letting me in or I'd throw up a plan view. 

What I have been trying to do is glue in a "power band" ala the build along on this forum.  However as I think about it it's almost like he cut down to his ring from the back side of the bow.  Since that nose,bulge, nose was left on the stave.  I'm having a heck of a time gettin the seams clean on that powerband with my current tooling.

today I had this idea.  What If I started with my 4/4" slat (or there bouts) and Cut down from the BACK side of the bow to get that swell at the handle (like leaving the powerband in the stave and removing everything else) THEN glue on my bamboo?  Actually the bamboo could also be left thick at the center.  The belly would be treated as normal.  Does that make sense?

The closest I came with clean results to a bow that looked allot like that was the R/D long bow I did with no powerlam but a handle bump. 

Would that work?  Because then the forms for glue up are a piece of cake.

The plan would be to mark of that bulge section say 3/16" -1/4".  Cut down over an 7-8" long run on either side of center then make a level cut to the end.  Clean it up.  Then cut my rough taper from the belly side.  I save it and glue it back on with three drops of reg wood glue and news paper between.  I also cut the taper a bit short of the handle so I can get a clean cut on the riser fade but now that I have a sanding drum I may not need to do that.  Then I can clamp to my form with movable blocks to get the R/D in.  I'll leave the center of the Bamboo kinda thick to pick up an extra 1/16" or so.   I use a combo of rubber clamps and regular clamps to do the glue up.

when it comes out of the form. the sawn belly taper pops off easily leaving a tad of news paper to sand off and start tillering/ cleaning up as well as shaping and attaching the riser.

does any of that make sense?

[Prarie Bowyer]

Beautiful! 

Ican't seem to get mine that thin.  And on the curve after being bent.  It might help if I had an actual belt sander.  I'm using a drum sander that I made for my lathe. I have 2.5 working bows now.  I'm hoping to sell one and pick up the belt sander.

Darnit Photobucket!  I made a diagram.  But I can't post it.

Basically imagine starting with a thicker stave.  Saw out and clean up the stave and attached powerlam.  Back that whole thing with bamboo and glue in the R/D.  I think this is what he did. No seam on the pwr lam.

[Prarie Bowyer]

Actualy I think I'm looking at it wrong and making it too difficult. 

That extra "bulk in the nose" could just be visual becasue of the double thick leather handle.  I think that a narrow support in the center will get that deeper center curve then the riser can be cut to fit.  When the fades are cut is when the tillering taper is finished. 

Dosen't explain his staves with the extra central bulk on the back.

[mikekeswick]

He has spliced together two limbs of osage.Then there is no need for a powerlam. Once the limbs are spliced you simply glue on the riser pieces.
Keep it simple!

[Prarie Bowyer]

I don't see the seam for the splice.

[Prarie Bowyer]

You think that on a bow like this the riser is centered on the stave?

[aznboi3644]

Looks like a splice in the handle area...not really a bugle from wood that was there...just wood that was glued.

[Prarie Bowyer]

I don't see any seams.  Pluss when you look at his article in the book he clearly shows a stave that is thicker back side at the riser section.  It has a sort of crown to it.  The stave had the triangle on top. 

I found his web site. 

http://www.holzbogenbau.com/start_fr.html
(click "zuruck" to scroll through photos).
Not all of them have this "Roman Nose" that I like so much.  I also dig the double wrap.  I'm obsessing over a small detail I know but it's details that make the full package.  Chicken soup with outsalt is just chicken water.

I think he's using heat to prebend the centers of his bows as well.  I don't see the bamboo and force of the glue holding those curves in the bow.  Pluss for like 650 Euros base price I'd hope he was doing a bit more work than clamping everything into a form and letting the glue hold the shapes.  Right now one Euro is $1.34 (It was higher earlier in the summer as I recall) so that is like $871.00 for a pretty stick.  He is a champion so there may be some brand name in the price.  And they all seem to be Osage which as far as I can tell runs about $50 a stave.  They don't look like Argentine Osage and I don't think it grows in western europe so lets say he's shipping it from the states.  Call it $100 a stave (possibility of a bulk discount of some sort).  Heat bends on the reflex/deflex and a few exotics in the riser with horn nocks.  Is it worth it?

They are lovely bows.  I keep coming back to look at them like some sort of sick addict.