How to make Knox glue?

[Justin Snyder]

OK guys, you wanted answears.  I made glue from hoof, but it was not just the shell.  It will make glue, and it does work. I decided to do a little experementing to see what works and what don't, to answer all the controversy.  I also did a lot of reading.
Hoof shell, will not make glue adequate to build anything except postage stamps, and that is questionable.
Entire hoof, including toe bones and all the other material in the hoof (digital cussion, pieces of the flexor and extensor tendons) will make glue adequate to build bows.
Sinew makes good glue. The older the animal the better the glue.  It will gel faster and hold better.
Bone will make glue.
Hide glue is stronger than bone glue.
Fish glue is the strongest and most flexable, but is most susceptible to humidity.
Blood glue is fairly strong, and makes the most water resistant glue.
You can also make glue from vegetable starch, milk and numerous other things.

I suspect that hoof glue was actually everything glue.  The inner hoof was good, but hard to get out, so throw the whole leg in.  It is primarily a wood glue.
Fish glue is used to glue flexable joints, it is used to glue leather seams.
Blood glue is the best high pressure glue.  It was used for plywood construction.
Vegetable glues are used for envelopes and such.
Animal glue from hide or sinew is stronger than Knox. I don't know if it is because Knox has been treated to be clear and odorless with chemicals, but that is my suspicion.
Animal glue is considered instant glue, because it holds as soon as it cools. Long before it is dry. 
Animal glue is stronger than TB.
Because it gels first, then dries, it does not honey comb like the synthetic water based glues.

Justin

[Justin Snyder]

OH YEA, and old dead cows DO STINK.  Justin

[NOMADIC PIRATE]

In "the bowyers bible" Knox is rated second only to two ton epoxy,...comments ??

[Hillbilly]

I remember reading that, Manny- they tested everything from TB to Urac to Resorcinol, regular hide glue, etc., and Knox was rated stronger than any of them except for the two-ton. It would be interesting for several people to do the test independently and see if the results match.

[jamie]

i rock boiled a bunch of deer hooves to see if i could get oil to finish one of my stone bows. didnt get enough oil to do much but i did end up with a small amount of glue towards the end. i suppose if i boiled it longer i would of gotten more.
i have some air bladders from some carp that a friend shot. looking forward to trying that out soon. peace

[Justin Snyder]

In "the bowyers bible" Knox is rated second only to two ton epoxy,...comments ??

Manny, all of my reading was chemists, archaeologists, and professionals in the glue industry.  They didn't really compare to epoxy on a general level. They did say hide glue is the strongest glue known. They specifically mentioned that it was stronger than TB.    Justin

[welch2]

Thanks Justin, it must have took awhile. Was it normal fish glue or fish bladder glue ?

Ralph

[Justin Snyder]

Thanks Justin, it must have took awhile. Was it normal fish glue or fish bladder glue ?

Ralph

It was a little time consuming, but kind of fun.  I had 4 different pots on the fire at once.  I hope it helped.  Glue from the skins of eels and perch is the most common. I don't know if there is a significant difference in the two. It is mixed and used like hide glue but, is finer and clearer. It can be melted without the addition of water if you are really carefull with your heat. Justin

[welch2]

fish bladder glue is supposed to be better , the Turks used sturgeon ,and the koreans use puffer fish bladders for thier horn bows. I have never used fish skin glue ,So I was wondering if you had compared the two types.
        Fish bladder glue is also called isenglas.It's used to clarify beer and wine ,and art restoration people people use it as a binder in oil paint. Asian food markets sell fish bladders under ther name 'fish maw' they have both dried and cooked maws though ,get the dried ones.Or  save the swim bladder from your fishing trip.

Ralph

[Justin Snyder]

I have been trying to find fish bladder, but haven't found any yet. I'm going fishing tomarrow.  Fish glue is also huge in musical instrument repair.  The funny thing is none of them are considered true "glue".  Because they adhere when gelled, not just after they are dry, they are actually adhesive. Justin

[NOMADIC PIRATE]

Justin,..so hide glue is stronger than Knox ?

[samuraiwarrior]

fish bladder glue is supposed to be better , the Turks used sturgeon ,and the koreans use puffer fish bladders for thier horn bows. I

Minor correction, but the Koreans use croaker air bladders, I have never heard of them using a puffer fish bladder.

[Justin Snyder]

Justin,..so hide glue is stronger than Knox ?

I mixed up a batch of Knox, and the immediate holding strength of the hide glue and the sinew glue, were both stronger. You can almost bet that Knox has bone in it, which is the weakest of all these glues. I also suspect it has something to do with the cleaning process. I'm not sure what they do to the Knox to make it so clear, unflavored, and odorless, but it must effect the strength.  I have used liquid before too, but that will never happen again. I would use Knox long before liquid hide glue, or TB. One other thing to consider. Most people think of making hide glue as a too much work.  It is far more work to prepare the sinew right, than it is to make the hide glue.  I just set up my gas cooker out back.  Put the pots on low, and checked back once in a while to change the heat if needed.  I had a slight breeze, and only rarely smelled anything. I was working on bows while it was cooking so it didn't really take time out of my day. Justin

[DanaM]

Where do the commercial hide glue flakes rate. Are they the same as making it yerself.

[Justin Snyder]

Nothing is the same as making your own. That is why we all make our own bows.  I would guess it depends on what type of material was used in making the glue.  It is probably somewhere around Knox. Some bone, some hide, some EVERYTHING. I think Knox is plenty strong. If you are using store bought glue, use the Knox.  It is cheap and easy to find. Justin