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Author Topic: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off  (Read 89110 times)

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Offline RyanY

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2011, 11:02:47 pm »
Toomanyknots, thank you. Even if they were siyah's or tips it's still too massive. Adam Karpowicz, an expert on Asiatic composite bows, had stated that the primary reason composite bows rarely shoot faster than well made wood bows is because there is too much mass in the siyah's; mass needed for stability. I have no doubt that you can make a laterally stable bow with siyah's but I have yet to see one with siyahs that have less mass than a stiff tipped mantra bow. Even if you don't compete I'd like to see the bow you speak of. I'll be sure to post mine for everyone's criticism.
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blackhawk

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2011, 12:50:29 am »
Thanks for the updates Matt and Lane. Bummer ya came in underweight Lane. Next ones always better anyways....right?  ;) :D

Sorry to hear ya wont be participating toomanyknots after all that coffee table talk on designs. Talk is only talk. If you think your design is faster and more durable than a Tim Baker style mantra bow,then why not prove it? (That oughta get ya riled up again) ;)


Hope ya find a fast board Ryoon. I prob don't even need to ask if ya had fun at Mojam either. And im just putting some pressure on ya,so you can focus that energy into a smoking awesome board bow bro.
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Offline seabass

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #92 on: July 18, 2011, 01:03:42 am »
i think i am going to give this a go.i started one tonight.i am no bowyer.i am just getting started.i have made one red oak bow for my woman.it is 21#at26".if this bow turns out this week,i will send for the address.i know that i am not going to win,but i just want to donate one to charity.i think this is a good idea to promote archery in youngsters.thanks guys,steve
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Middletown,Ohio

blackhawk

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2011, 09:05:30 am »
Seabass...pm sent. Hope you can make it :)   thanks for trying.

All experience levels are accepted,whether you've made one or too many to count
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2011, 12:25:53 pm »
"If you think your design is faster and more durable than a Tim Baker style mantra bow,then why not prove it?"

As I recall I wasn't allowed to do anything except make a flatbow. Like you said, you won't allow siyahs or recurves of any kind, as well as protective fabric backings, so the only options to play around with is low stress flatbow designs, as no one would want to make a high stressed design and have it blow up in a kids face. So I am definitely out.  I was just bringing up design features that would add performace to a bow, I never said what design I would personally make. I do like the aspect of giving em away though, I bet a group boys home or something like that would be better than the boy scouts. I grew up in one, and we would of shot the crap out of some wood bows all the time. We were happy to have anything to do.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 12:31:30 pm by toomanyknots »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

blackhawk

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2011, 12:46:45 pm »
Toomanyknots,

How about making a red oak board bow with a protective backing of any kind, with as long of siyahs you want and send it to be tested and compared to molly's,holmys,and american flatbow designs. Just make sure its in the same poundage and draw length range.  But I wont allow it to be entered into the contest,but if you do then we can waste all this talk and prove with real action if this type of design will out perform the others listed. Talk is cheap until the arrows fly my brother.  ;)


Im now curious to see if your siyahs wood be worth the effort of making or not. It wood be a shame to find out its slower,not as durable,and tougher to string and shoot. Hehehehehe :laugh:<--------im smack talking. Don't take me too serious please  ;)
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Offline Michael C.

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2011, 01:16:37 pm »
I think most of us are going to be making a similar design because the long, wide limb narrow tip is just a logical design for a fast bow and I think that's an easy design to make a fairly durable bow from. I know mine is going to be about 68 - 72 t2t and about 1.5 to 2" wide and tiny outer limbs. At least that's what my plan is now until I end up breaking a few. All I've made from oak at this point is a backed bow too, so this is fairly experimental to me. Should be fun and possibly frustrating, but I'll know a bit more about what I'm doing after this contest is over I hope :)
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"Friendship makes prosperity more shining and lessens adversity by dividing and sharing it."

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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2011, 01:33:22 pm »
I don't really think there is an argument going on here, or if there is I sure don't know what it is, as I am pretty sure I just keep correcting invalid statements and that seems to be the gist of it. I just woke up ten minutes ago I don't know what the heck I am arguing about anymore regarding siyahs, but I never said I personally could make a bow that would whip all your butts if it was aloud to have siyahs, all I did was try to explain the advantages of low outer mass and early draw weight that siyahs do in fact give, you know, with the little mspaint pic, just tryin to get it out there,... it's not the only way to gain early draw weight but with an unbacked bow you either have to steam your stave into reflex and tiller very carefully (on weak compression red oak wood at that) or add recurve/reflexed siyahs, thats about it I guess. I mean I can't think right now of anyway to add early draw weight to an unbacked red oak bow, can you? And early draw weight and low mass are really probably the only things that are gonna come down to it as it is only red oak flatbows, ... I am assuming d section is not allowed as well,...

"Im now curious to see if your siyahs wood be worth the effort of making or not."

Well they would if they lower outer limb mass, up the early draw weight, and lower stack as an added plus, now wouldn't they?   O:) ...  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

"then we can waste all this talk and prove with real action if this type of design will out perform the others listed."

Of course a bow with:

-lower outer mass
-more early draw weight

-would shoot better than than a bow with more outer mass and less early draw weight. Durr. Why is it the general consensus in this thread that a mollegebet bow is a very fast shooting good performance bow, but a mollegebet bow with the levers a bit reflexed is a horrible performing design. It's this stuff thats driving me crazy. If I can get the time I will make a normal little pyramid kids bow for a kid, as it was a great idea to do this, but in regards to making a bow that would not even be allowed in the contest, seems almost insulting.

"and send it to be tested and compared to molly's,holmys,and american flatbow designs."

Why wouldn't you allow recurves? Why wouldn't you allow all designs, not just the ones you favor or like to make? I really didn't know what bow I would make if I ended up finding a good board, and I had planned to just have fun with it, but I did not know that I would be designated to make a bow with siyahs, and one that would not even be allowed in the contest at that. You guys have fun. I'm tired of over running this thread, which looks to be a very cool thread with lots of cool flatbows, so I'm done. You and ryoon are really cool people, please don't take no bow talk from me as hostel or personal or nothing, as it most definitely is not. This was a very noble and plain cool idea yall had too. But I would suggest clarifying your rules a bit, I guess I missed the part of no recurve.



« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 01:40:31 pm by toomanyknots »
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Bow Nut

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2011, 01:37:36 pm »
If I had a good piece of red oak I would particiapate I will keep an eye out for one and keep you guys updated
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Offline Josh

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2011, 01:51:59 pm »
I thought we were allowed to steam/heat bend in recurves?  ??? when did that become a rule?
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“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

blackhawk

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #100 on: July 18, 2011, 01:55:27 pm »
Toomanyknots....there's def no arguing going on here. Just a lot of good design discussion. Which is good and healthy,and prob benefits some folks by reading. I never said recurves wasn't allowed,as long as its a unbacked selfbow. Gluing on siyahs makes it a composite. FYI half my bows are either recurved or tips flipped some. I really don't favor any style. I like em all.

Bownut I hope you can find a board to play with. If you do just say on the thread im in or send me a pm and ill pm you either way.
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blackhawk

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2011, 02:03:40 pm »
Josh...it never changed. Like I said,you can make it reflex,deflex,recurved,and all of the aforementioned as long as its unbacked and no glued on siyahs as this makes it a composite IMHO.
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Offline Michael C.

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2011, 02:30:23 pm »
create a contest - check
tell people the rules - check
watch as people who say that can't enter tell everyone else how they would make a bow and how it would be better - check
 
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  >:D >:D >:D

see if that gets them to enter :)
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"Friendship makes prosperity more shining and lessens adversity by dividing and sharing it."

Cicero

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2011, 02:57:42 pm »
I didn't know that steamed in recurves were allowed, I thought since you told me I couldn't have glued on recurves than that meant no recurves period.
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"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

blackhawk

  • Guest
Re: Red Oak Board Bow Cook Off
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2011, 03:12:43 pm »
Toomanyknots...Ahhh(sigh)....so do I have now in such a tizzy that you'll make n send one.  And I stated ealrier on that was ok. Ya must've missed it.  ;) :laugh: we got you all riled up brother :laugh: 


I hope so,cus you def blew a lot of air thru your lips to not too ;)
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