Lightening Grooves

[CraigMBeckett]

I too read Jim Hamm on the subject but must admit to being somewhat skeptical of the explanation.

Has anyone done any tests with a batch of arrows harvested at the same time and prepared  at the same time with some made with the groves others without and recorded the results?

Craig.

Jackcrafty above gave us a pretty in depth analysis.

Jacjcrafty is one person, hardly a conclusive number of experiments, he also suggests the method used by Jim Hamm may in fact work, I personally doubt this. So the more reports the better.

Jackcrafty,

Flutes have been shown to maintain the strength of a material while removing mass, like a flute down the blade of a sword.

Have you a report that shows this, I would be interested in reading it because I doubt that flutes in a solid will do anything but decrease bending strength, however flutes and the like in hollows will increase strength.

Craig

[JackCrafty]

...I doubt that flutes in a solid will do anything but decrease bending strength, however flutes and the like in hollows will increase strength.

Your right...sort of.  If were are talking about bending strength, for instance, it depends on the direction of the bending stress.  Anyway, I won't argue with you.  And you can look up your own report...I'm burnt out on researching engineering stuff.

[CraigMBeckett]

And you can look up your own report...I'm burnt out on researching engineering stuff.

What a pity.

Craig.

[George Tsoukalas]

If you put grooves in you arrows...

[George Tsoukalas]

...then you can tell people your arrows are really groovy. Jawge

[stickbender]

     I am with you Hatch, the blood fuller on a sword, or knife, is a farce as for letting blood out, easier to pull out, etc.  The flesh is going to close around the blade, or shaft.  You may get some external bleeding, but not enough to be useful for trailing etc. .  If the blade is pulled out, or the shaft, passes, through, or is pulled out in one way or another you will get blood, for trailing etc.  As for grooves letting blood out, if it worked, it would ok for trailing, if there was not a pass through, but I doubt there would be enough for that. But as for swords, knives, etc. It doesn't matter if there is blood coming out, as it is for certain, filling up inside.    Bleeding out or in, is irrelevant. Bleed enough, and it is fatal.   I am on the "lightening" side for grooving blades, as for arrows, it had to have some significance wether it had anything to to with "Mojo" for the arrow, or helping to reduce warping, or a combination thereof, I have no idea, but it took extra time to do, and the arrow was a time consuming project for the native people with primitive tools.  So if someone wants to put grooves on his arrow shafts, I have no problem with that.  Sort of like spitting on your fish hook.  

                                                                    Wayne

                                                                                   

[Bryce H]

I appreciate it, guys. 

[half eye]

Bryce,
     Called some Native friends and asked about your question.....the Chippewa (Ojibwe) and the Ottawa (Odawa) did not incise their arrow shafts......but their brothers (Potowattamii) did. When I asked Jay about this he said they knew about incise carving grooves on arrows but that the Ottawa thought it made the arrow "fly funny". After spending much time on their arrows to cure, straighten, smoke and grease them, they didn't want to screw them up. He did say though that there was much competition between tribe members ( who killed the deer, who killed the enemy etc.) and they did mark their arrows with painted designs or cresting etc. they also painted designs for totems, mojo etc. but no incised carving. Jay would not say if he knew why the others did carve their shafts but the ottawa thought they was nutts for doing it. There is a distinct possibility that the incised carving was a way for the man to identify his arrows from all others....I dont know for sure, but thank God the Odawa didn't do it.
     By the way the Odawa were master wood carvers and DID incise carve just about everything else like war clubs, lances, paddles, and knife handles etc. so I guess they decided that there was no good reason to hack and slash on their arrow shafts......

dont if it helps or not.
rich

[zenmonkeyman]

One more theory that I completely can't back up in any way shape or form:  Induced turbulence.  A smooth object moving through the air has laminar flow around it.  Laminar air flow has more friction than turbulent air flow.  Sometimes it is beneficial to induce a thin cushion of turbulence by disrupting the air flow.  Airplanes used to sometimes have a ridge near the leading edge of the wing, for example.  Golf balls fly much further and straighter because of the dimples.  And grooves in arrows?