Full draw pictures

[Justin Snyder]

I know this is going to be a touch subject. If it offends you, I apologize now.

When I first started making bows a couple of years ago, I didn't know about this site.  When I found the old site I was able to post pictures and get help, much like a lot of others do.  I posted a couple of bows with what I thought was good tiller. The great guys on this site were helpfull enough to point out areas where I could improve the tiller. This brought my bows to a whole new level. 

Now the touchy part.  Myself and many of the other guys vote for bows in the Bow Of the Month contest based on the quality of the tiller.  Eye candy such as snakes and paint are great, but it is BOW of the month, so we grade the bow first.  This leads me to my request. I for one would like to see the cool MONEY SHOT of you drawing your bow while hanging from your tree stand or however you like.  But I would really like to see a picture of the bow at full draw on the tillering tree, or at least drawn and held straight (not canted) for one picture so I can see the tiller.  If you don't want to post a picture like this, that is fine, it is just my own idea. But I think all of our bows could be improved by a set of fresh eyes. And it would be a lot easier for the fresh eyes to see the tiller if they see it the way you need to while you are tillering.   This would also make it a lot easier to know what we are voting for in BOM. Thanks, Justin

[Badger]

Justin, I agree with you, a good tiller shot has prevented me from voting for certain bows in the past just because I really couldnt see the tiller that well, I also like to see a front view along with the other views as well. Steve

[medicinewheel]

hi justin!  -  even for myself i now find pictures on the tillertree very informative; it's another aspect to look at the tiller and sometimes i can see things that i didn't see before.
i had that problem you are talking about with the last bow i posted: i had asked volunteers to take pictures of me drawing the bow, twice. but i angled the bow on all the pictures just a little bit, so that the tiller looks strange.
frank

[NOMADIC PIRATE]

I agree that a full draw shot should be taken with a strait bow, not canted,...that's what I always do even if it isn't my style of shooting.

However I don't think a tillering tree can compare with the human drawing, gripping hand,  drawing fingers, can't be reproduced by a tree and a scale where the only place I can put the scale hook on the string is nowere near where the nocking poing will finally go, as a matter of fact I belive that a good looking tiller on a tree might even turn out not so good once handled by a human being.

If you really like to look at the bow pointing upwards you can always turn the picture

[DanaM]

Justin while my bows are not good enuf for contention in the BOM(yet), I will try to remember a tiller tree full draw pic in
the future, but I agree with Manny that the FD profile can be different when hand drawn. As for BOM voting your right
that the tiller has to be good, a bow can be a thing of beauty with all the accessories but if poorly designed or tillered all ya have is eye candy.
But I also think you have to take into account the bowyers experience vs. the finished product. A difficult stave for me could very well be a routine
job for someone else. So who worked harder?
Now I will one up ya and tick alot of folks off I firmly believe you should only be allowed to win BOM
once per year per category. This will allow more people to experience the honor and there would be 12 bowyers per category vieing for Bow of the Year honors.
And before anyone suggests that I'm jealous, let me say that you are wrong I just feel that it is the fair way of doing it.
And I won't apologize in advance for my opinion.

Dana

[Hillbilly]

I greatly prefer to see a human being drawing a bow, partly for the reasons already given.

[Badger]

     I prefer a human drawing as well, but a good view for judging. Dana, I have thought the same thing many times, I try and take a bowyers experience into consideration when looking them over, if I see a releatively new bowyer so a real nice job it will often get my nod. Whre is if a man is putting out consistently good work every month I tend to expect more out of him when I vote. Steve

[Marc St Louis]

I have posted before that if the full draw image is not square on that I will pass on voting. Also I like to see an unbraced picture of the bow because that tells me something about the bow as well. I picture of a bow on the tree make me cringe though.I used to do that many years ago but use the timer on my camera now and draw by hand. Much better for the bow. Like you, eye candy does not move me unless the bow is also very well made and tillered

[Ryano]

Yep, square but not on a tillering rack. Drawing the bow with your hands tells you much more. 
Did I mention I hate tillering rack full draws?

[Pat B]

I try to hold my bows vertical when having pics made to show here on PA. Also, I try to have a somewhat neutral background so the bow, and all its glory , make a good appearance. The tiller tree doesn't work for me because I can't hold at full draw and take the pic by myself...and my wife hates to come to my dusty basement shop. I have noticed that the bow at full draw on the tiller tree can be differant from the when I pull to full draw. The bow's position on the tree as well as where you attach to the string will make a big difference.   Pat

[1/2primitive]

Dana, could your 'win-once-per-year-per-category' thing come as a result of, ahemGordon? 
I agree, I try to take a good square picture of me pulling the bow, and I really don't like it when someone doesn't. They've missed the beauty of it!
      Sean

[DanaM]

Sean, no its no one in particular, I have nothing but respect for everyone on here. To me its a fairness thing.
Personally if I ever win BOM(ya right ) I would request that Don not enter any more of my bows in the contest.
As a matter of fact Don messaged me for a full draw pic of my daughter with the bow I made her, he wanted it for the kids bow contest.
I responded that my daughter is no longer a kid, she's 18 and that the bow has developed a fatal hinge so I requested that it not be considered.
To me its only fair.

Dana

[Justin Snyder]

I like the response you all have given.  My suggestion of the tillering tree is not meant to have the bow on the tree necessarily. It is more wanting the bow to have a solid background for the full draw.  If the background is trees and grass and brush of different texture with shadows and sunlight it can cause illusions.  I like the way Pat and others always stand in front of the shed so the background is uniform.     Justin

[tom sawyer]

I agree with the majority as far as having the pic drawn by hand.  And I can tell you that tiller is something that is very hard to photograph properly, a very slight cant and you make the tiller look different.  Heck even photographing the bow from both sides can give you a different look.

The BOM contest is based on somewhat subjective criteria, but it is adequate I think.  Its up to the bowyer to provide adequate photographic evidence of his/her work.  Eye candy can't help but affect the judgement of the bow.  I'm personally a lousy artist so I always fall short in that category.

[330bull]

The only example I have is that the cherry osage bow I built. The tiller was not "picture perfect" due to the snakiness, but it shoots 65# @ 26" with ZERO handshock.  That to me also says a lot about the bow.  But I am a novice too so...this is just one opinion of thousands. 

 

Joe