ready to back??? but these knots...

[sadiejane]

prolly shlda taken some pix-and can tomorrow if you need em.
so i have this osage stave ive taken to the best ring,
there are a few knots, nothing huge but tho ive carefully removed excess wood around em, they still stick up some.
intend to back this bow with rawhide. even the thickest ring was pretty thin.
what are the chances of getting the rawhide down good with those knots sticking up a  bit? thanks

was planning on using tbIII but can go pick up some tb II. what do you guys think regarding glue.
also have a good source for some hide glue....
as always, yr help is much appreciated

[Josh]

how thick is your rawhide?  if it is deer or goat it should be thin enough to lay well across the knots.  I would leave the knots proud ( one solid ring) and re-hydrate the rawhide really well (soak in water) that makes it really plyable--and it SHOULD lay with no problems even over knots.  That's just what I would do.  Good luck! 

[Josh]

oh yeah make sure to squegee out the excess water too or it will take FOREVERr to cure and may cause adheision problems.

[sadiejane]

cool-thanks josh. ok will proceed as planned. just like to take my time and ask ?s
this is my first rawhide backing project

anyone whos used rawhide backing wanna tell me what they used for glue?
thanks again!

[Bevan R.]

TBII. Use it for rawhide & snake skins.

Bevan

[sadiejane]

thanks for all yr help fellas.
one more question, if ya dont mind.
most everything ive read folks size the bow with glue first.
the questions is about the rawhide.
i read some folks size the rawhide also...some dont?
seems like that would be difficult with it wet???/
thanks again

[Mark Anderson]

I size the bow while the rawhide is soaking, then it has time to dry some before I put the rawhide on. I like it to bee just tacky, not so much that it sticks to your finger, but just so you can feel it's not quite cured. Then I apply glue (TBII or III) to both the back and the hide, after the hide has been wiped as dry as I can get it, and lay it on the bow. you need to be sure to wrap it with something, string, innertubes, or that stretch wrap stuff. Always pull the hide in the opposite direction you are wrapping or it will want to lay itself around the bow in the direction you're wrapping.
If the rawhide is thin enough and you wrap it well you can get it to lay down in, on, around all kinds of knots and dips and twists.
Mark

p.s. some guys hate the process of backing with rawhide but to me it's easier than backing with anything else.

[JW_Halverson]

I press the rawhide between two towels to absorb the surface moisture before applying the glue to the rawhide. 

Be sure to press from the centerline off to the sides as you go down the bow limb to squeeze out excess glue and any trapped air bubbles.  I then wrap gently with Ace bandages and take the bandages off after a few hours.  The glue will have begun to set but the rawhide will still be slightly pliable.  I then wipe the rawhide down with a damp cloth or sponge to re-wet the rawhide.  This allows the rawhide to plump up again and get rid of the obnoxious fabric pattern of the Ace bandages.  Much smoother results this way, more professional looking.

[Pat B]

I do similar to JW but use strips of old bed sheets to wrap. As you wrap you will unintentially pull the backing to one side. Be aware of this with each wrap so you can keep the rawhide straight. I leave the wrap on for about an hour or so them remove it to be sure there are no air or excess glue pockets. This is also a good time to trim the excess rawhide off with a sharp razor but be careful not to lift the backing.
  Any good carpenters glue will work. When I started building bows Elmer's was the glue of choice and worked just fine.
...also, backing with two pieces of rawhide instead of one long piece is easier to work. I overlap the two at the handle.
...and I wash rawhide in Dawn dish soap and rince well before glueing it down to ensure all grease has been removed.

[mullet]

I'm curious as to what kind of wood it is? If it's osage, does it need to be backed?

[cowboy]

Hey Sadie: I've only backed one bow with deerhide. It was a white oak and smooth with no knots. I used tbIII. The strips were half the bow length, started at the handle painting the glue on so forth and so on. Anyway, that all turned out fine - ask piper . Around knots, I don't know if you could wrap it and hold it down well enough. Maybe like the snake skins - i quit wrapping them and just started working them down (working out the bubbles down and out on the limbs) as the glue set up and all turned out well. I imagine that would work with rawhide as well..

[JW_Halverson]

Pat makes a good point about the tension of your wrapping material causing you to pull the rawhide off the opposite side of the limb. 

To counter this problem, I pull the Ace bandage as tight as possible across the belly and as I come around the edge to the back of the bow I let up a little tension so that the section laying across the belly pulls back to pin the rawhide down.  It's easier to show than to describe...stop by the next time you are in the Black Hills and I'll show ya.

[crooketarrow]

    Like mullet said I f your backing it just because it's got thin rings you be ok. And for the knots I THINK THEY LOOK GOOD exspecially the ones that stick up. And you don't need up back because of knots. Wood around knots grow stronger use less rally bad bows don't uselly break at knots. If you did your job a tillering it'lll be fine. But only you can look at the stave and tell.

[sadiejane]

the bow is being backed because of the really thin rings.
making this bow for a friend, it gonna be rather short, 54 ntn.
it's just not the best piece of wood ever.
so i was thinking maybe backing it will be the key to creating a usable bow.
it is my first time backing a bow with rawhide and the knots concerned me,
simply from the standpoint of getting good adhesion.
thanks fellas, really do appreciate all your help and support on this site.
bow making has gotten into my blood and i'm really loving it.
but have tons to learn.....
thanks

[JW_Halverson]

The first sliver under the skin is usually the point of infection.  And with osage it is usually the sliver under a fingernail so that it burns for days to remind you of how the addiction will burn your time, spare cash, etc...