Glass: a few follies

[Hillbilly]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Pat-gadgetry has become a cultural thing. People these days are so inundated by ads, commercial propaganda, and hunting shows that are thinly disguised half-hour advertisements that they think The Latest Thing has to be better, especially if it costs more. I get a big chuckle out of the compound shooting guys I know that killed three deer with their rig last year, but wouldn't think about hunting with it this year, because Jackie Bushman told them that it's obsolete now, and they must get the new model to stand a chance of killing a deer this year lol. The only real advantage I can see in a glass bow is that it can stay braced forever without killing it, but then, you can't kill something that isn't alive to begin with. Wooden bows are alive, you can feel it. Glass is inanimate and dead, and that makes a big difference to me.

[Ryano]

I agree with every thing thats been said, with the exception of Davids "master craftsmen" remark....lol.....come on Dave!

[StanM]

And then there's camo.  Can't kill a deer without it, and can't get a decent set for under $300.  No wonder so many people lament not having the funds to go on a hunt in Alaska 

Stan

[Pat B]

I would not consider a person that can assemble a glass bow as a master craftsman. If he made the glass fibers from sand and blended the resin from it's components and then designed and executed the assembly and all the finish work himself, them maybe I would consider him a "master" craftsman. To me, someone that can take a piece of wood from the tree and craft a successful wood bow is closer to a craftsman than the person that assembles a bow from the components and an already calculated formula. I know a few glass bow builders that do their own design work, cut and grind their own laminations and meticulously assemble and shape the finished bow with their own hands. These guys more closely resemble craftsmen than the "pop out" bow  bowyers.   Pat

ps. How bout that Jawge (love my Sunday morning caffeine buzzzzzz )

[Coo-wah-chobee]

                I have a problem here ! Can't kill a deer without camo ? Cmon, give me a break. Sure Stan M said it with tongue in cheek $300 for camo-whoa ! ......bob

[Kegan]

                I have a problem here ! Can't kill a deer without camo ? Cmon, give me a break. Sure Stan M said it with tongue in cheek $300 for camo-whoa ! ......bob

I think it is kinda funny that someone mentioned camo- I have turned two compounders onto bow building 'cause they spent 75% of their "hunting allowance" on new camo and scent killers. But they still smash through the woods with heavy soled boots to metal stands on the edges of feilds every day

[George Tsoukalas]

Not bad, Pat. After all it is Sunday and Mother's Day. Frankly, DCM, remark your was pretty off base, I believe. But you are entitled to your opinion. Don't know where you pulled that one from but I could speculate. LOL. A very strange remark considering I would be inclined to call you a master craftsman. Jawge

[StanM]

Yes, Bob, tongue was firmly planted in cheek    I was just looking through the Cabela's Archery catalog a couple of days ago and noticed that the ScentBlocker Dream Season Series Jacket went for $169.95 ($189.95 if you're a big fella).  Pants go for $159.95 ($175.95 for 2XL).  Now tack on $29.95 for gloves and another $19.95 for a headcover and you may stand a chance against the deer 

Not knockin' it, if a guys got the cash to spend (I don't), go for it.  I do get tickled when I see a show and whoever is hunting says you've "gotta have it" or you won't shoot deer, though.

Stan

[Pat B]

The shows I like are when the host is in full scent lock camo with grease paint on his face and sitting in an elevated blind 100 yards from his quarry.      Pat

[Hillbilly]

Yeah, the guys sitting in a fully enclosed treehouse really need those mossy oak underoos

[Justin Snyder]

Hillbilly, I just like the camo underoos because they help to camouflage what I did when I saw that huge buck.  Maybe I should try the scentlock too.  Justin

[DCM]

Dang, ya'll are just looking for something to jump on.  Might consider mixing 2 parts shop time to 1 parts internet next Sunday.  Master craftsmen do their thing with any and all materials, including wood, and glass.  It's not all mutually exclusive.  Acting like Don Assienhimer or OL Adcock or any of a 100 bowyers who have decades in making high quality, high performance bows are not masters at their craft for their choice of materials does not improve one's own craftmanship.

[Pat B]

David, The materials have nothing to do with craftsmanship. I know glass bowyers that are true master craftsmen. Mike Treadway for one. He cuts his own wood and grinds the lams. He has designed and built some fine bows and unique take down systems. Every bit of work in each of his bows is done by him. I would consider Mike a master craftsman.  My point is that I believe a lot of "custom" bows are mass produced. The original designer and builder was probably the master craftsman but eventually his design and techniques are sent to the assembly line to be mass produced. The folks along the assembly line that are putting these bows together aren't necessarily master craftsmen.     Look at the quality of wood bows being crafted today. The bowyers may not consider them selves master craftsmen but they definitely have mastered their craft!  Taking a piece of wood and crafting a bow, and assembling the components of a glass bow take two different mindsets and sets of techniques...and now days you can have 2 bows that have the same performance. The person that made the self bow is a craftsman. The guy that assembled the components doesn't have to be a craftsman.   
   .     Pat
 

[oak]

Well said Pat I think I agree with most everything you said right there.  I have an appreciation for all different types of traditional bows, be it glass, selfbow or composite.  It all takes a different set of skill to bring out an original product.  I have seen glass bowyers that custom grind their lams and have spliced veneers under clear glass and all I could say is "whoa I wish I could do that" then they have there custom risers, they are truly works of art that sometimes have many hours of work in them.  It is just a different type of art that has some science mixed in, all tough I see some of what Badger is doing and the guys who use the Supertiller and similar computer programs to make all wood bows and need to say that science has met primitive as well.  It makes me think of Michelangelo and Di Vici, M would have coaxed the bow out of the wood and Leo would have seen the materials that he had and thought about it and made a piece of art with some science behind it ( I see Mike as being the selfbow guy and Leo as being the glass bow guy).  Both are artists but both have a different approach.

To me the highest form of art there is in a bow is an Asiatic horn composite, but that is me we are all different and we are all entitled to our own opinion.  Fact of the matter for me is that we all love bows and archery and desire an understanding of how to make and use something that was really truly man kinds first truly efficient hunting tool and weapon.  I just imagine sometime how it must have been going from spears and atlatl to bow and arrow, to them it must have been night and day or probably similar to what it was like when guns first became usable to the general masses.  It is just the evolution of man to include any materials that we get our hands on to try and make the most powerful or fastest, lightest, prettiest piece that we can.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that is different for each and every one of us.  Two me if it has a string and bends I'll probably love it but I will find one piece prettier or more fun than the other

Blake

[DCM]

Pat,

We are in complete agreement as far as I can tell so I don't have a lot more to add.  You may be able to continue with whatever George and Ryan imagined I said,  Maybe they'll follow up this morning.  Perhaps add a bit more straw and a nice Fedora hat, present a proper target for folks to flail away at.

George,

Perhaps you should explain to us what you think I said, and where you think I "pulled" it from?  I'm particularly interested in that second idea.