nock and arrowhead questions

[sander]

Making first bamboo arrow right now nock grips the string read here on primitive archer that
the nock moves up and down when arrow released any thoughts? do you guys like a loose
nock would that give better patterns if the nock does move up and down seems like it might
not sure though.  The rib cage of a deer align vertically do you make any attempt to have
your arrow strike with the arrowhead in a verticle position so it slips between the ribs.  Does
anyone shoot arrows that dont spin for this purpose even though it would reduce accuracy.
Probably a good idea in theory probably not practical any thoughts?

[Cromm]

As far as I know if there is feathers on the end of your arrow it is going to spin.

[half eye]

Sander,
      I make all my string knocks loose to the string....from my experience that system is more forgiving of release errors, I believe that "snap" knocks actually pull the string past brace as they accumulate the force necessary to get off of the string. I have more consistant groups and accuracy with the loose knocks.....Just my opinion though.
      I also used to align my heads for the vertical orientation, but no longer do so. If the arrowhead is vertical upon impact but hits a rib square-on it will still have to split the rib to penetrate and a very sharp 2-blade with a cutting tip will "bite" into live bone before it "slides off". So I quit worrying about it and since I use hardwood shafts the knocks and heads (hafted) are orieted 90 degrees to the grain/ growth rings. Again just one guys opinion
      If ya think about it, if your distance changes as little as 2 yards you can have as much as a 1/4 turn so after I thought about it I didn't worry anymore....a good head from a good bow will cut the rib clean in half going in anyways......saved me a lot of brain fatigue. If I never kill another deer, I've probably allready got my fair share and haven't noticed any difference since I quit gettin all worked up over that head orientation. I'd be a liar if I said I had not given that question a whole lot of thought
      My whole answer to the penetration thing, is arrow mass not head orientation. If ya get good mass moving it's gonna penetrate.
rich

[hillbilly61]

Don't know much about Stone points yet, but all my arrows are tipped with ones I've made and am going to hunt with. I like the shaft to spin so I put a little more helical in them.
  If you think about it in this way. Your arrow no matter if the fletches are straight, will still spin to some degree. This gives you a 50/50 shot at what angle it's going to hit, either vertical or horizontal. This is why you need too keep those points sharp. JMO
  As far as the nocks go. I like mine loose. Like half eye said, the pinched nock is releasingwith resistance as it leaves the string. A loose nock don't. Again JMO

[jonathan creason]

Since I shoot 3  under I like to use snap nocks.  I cut a slot in the shaft with my bandsaw, then go back and drill a hole out at the bottom on the slot.  I use sandpaper to open the nock to the point that it holds the string, but will come off with a light tap.

[Pat B]

I prefer a loose fitting string nock. I cut a single bandsaw cut at the nock end and the point end(for trades and stone), both the same direction and open the cut with a thin blade knife and sandpaper. This puts my points vertical. I really don't think the direction matters.
  The chance of you getting an arrow between the ribs are probably 50/50 or less. A heavy hunting arrow, sharp broadhead and good arrow placement are more inportant than trying to get your arrow to go between the ribs.
  Any fletched arrow will spin. Even with straight fletching the shape of the feather will cause the arrow to spin. I wouldn't be surprised if even an unfletched arrow didn't spin.
  Do a little test...tie a length of thin thread onto the point end of your arrow and shoot the arrow. The thread will show you how much spin your arrow has by the number of wraps it achieved during it's flight.

[sander]

All of you thank you very much very good rational answers.  I will not concern myself
with arrowhead alignment as for as going between the ribs.  Cut my arrow tonight and it
happens to be going verticle.  I knapped a point out of onandaga rock from Canada
any of you guys ever use this stone for hunting what do you think of it? 

[Outbackbob48]

Sander, I have made a few points out of onandago, It's very durable material an not easy to knap,but makes a good hunting point. Bob

[sander]

Thanks outback good to hear.  I pressure flake a sharp edge just wondering what is sharp
enough for effective deer hunting.

[George Tsoukalas]

My trades are tied on so they are vertical. My nocks are snug but not tight. A slight tap dislodges the arrow from the string. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/archer.html

[sander]

Thanks george good to hear your method.  Keeping the arrow in position on the string one
way or another is good.  Do you use a wrap on your bowstring to position the nock against?

[nclonghunter]

I have shot arrows with no "string" nock or tied in knot, with loose arrow nocks and those seem to fly best. However, it is good to have a string reference for quick alignment. I wonder if Native Americans made a string "knot" for reference.

Another consideration to the broadhead alignment is the arrow paradox, bending left, then right and so on as it is leaving the bow. I have wondered if the broadhead being flat will paradox better than one positioned up and down. Because the arrow has not yet began spinning, the up and down positioned broadhead is actually pushing its' sides into the wind as the paradox occurs. Positioned flat or sideways it is in a position to cut the air or wind as it begins left and right paradox.

Hope that made some sense.......at least give you some more useless pondering...

[sander]

nclong great thoughts have considered the same concerning the paradox bound to have some
effect.  No string nock now will do a thread wrap or tape agreed alignment crucial better than
eyeballing every time.  How deep do you like your arrow nocks mine is up against a bamboo
joint but only 1/4 inch deep too shallow maybe arrow falls off string when let down draw etc?
Any thoughts?   Tried to post earlier looks like it didnt go through.

[George Tsoukalas]

sander, I do use a nock point. I've never made a bamboo arrow and just a few from cane. On the cane I fashioned a piece of wood to insert as kind of a footing. I did that for the point end too. Let me retrace here. I have a spine tester and when making a shoot arrow I test the spine at a spot and the give it a 1/4 turn and test it again to find the point of greatest spine. That's only for a shoot arrow since there is no end grain as there would be  in a split shaft or machined shaft (nocks here have to be cut perp to the end grain). I cut the selfnock perpendicular to that point. It doesn't matter about the head but I like to mount it horizontally. Spine is not a consideration for that. I may have said vertically before. Not sure. I don't do stone but the nocks and points are wrapped with real sinew for my hunting arrows. The point is wrapped for a good inch but not much is needed for the nock end. Did I confuse you? Jawge

[sander]

George good to hear from you.  Going with no inserts in the bamboo will do the wraps
with sinew on both ends.  Wondering how deep is necessary for the nock as I asked
on previous post  Know where to get a deal on a grain scale?