Author Topic: Cable-Backed Bows?  (Read 9917 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Cable-Backed Bows?
« on: September 24, 2010, 10:26:26 pm »
Lately I've been working on a cable-backed bow and I wanted to ask you guys for some input.  I've been reading a lot about these bows but the sources dry up quick.  Anybody got pictures they would like to show off?   ;D

I'm going to post some pictures right now...but I've got to upload them to photobucket, copy the links, etc....etc.  Be back soon!
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline sailordad

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 10:34:47 pm »
ooooOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo  this should be good
your work always is  ;)
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 10:43:38 pm »
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 09:33:42 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 10:52:47 pm »
The bow is a juniper branch that started out at about 1-1/2" in diameter.  It is mock-up based on an Anasazi bow.  Before working with a lot of sinew, I like to make a quick mock-up using poly-cotton thread instead of sinew.  The whole thing is glued up with fish glue.  The grip is about 1" in diameter and the tips taper down to about 1/4" in diameter.

It pulls about 37# at 18" draw, if memory serves, and it it being drawn to about 20" in the picture.  The growth rings are violated all over the place on the back in order to give the cable as smooth a surface as possible so that it will take up the stress evenly.  The cross section is oval and it has no nocks.  The grip is wrapped with a strip of chamois leather.

Normally, a juniper bow would blow apart at this point.  I'm amazed that it is staying together so well.  It has taken about 2" of set.  It is 49" long.  I will chrono it tomorrow.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 12:39:08 am by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 11:01:09 pm »
The ashe juniper branch already had a natural curve in the direction of the string.  As you can see, it is mostly sapwood.  There is a good amount of heartwood at the bottom and that worries me.  I've heard a few cracklings in that area.  Usually, the heartwood on this type of juniper is quite fragile.

Anyway, I've read that many tribes in the Southwest used cable-backed bows including the Apache.  They were D-shaped and probably "gull-wing" shaped as well.  After the Europeans arrived, these bows apparently went out of fashion. In this area, most bows later became rectangular in cross section and had a thin layer of sinew glued to the back.   It's a shame...I think I like this design!

Sorry about the poor quality of the pictures, I will be able to take better ones tomorrow...it was starting to get dark here.

Oh yeah, don't look at the arrow.  It's not an Anasazi design....I used it because it was the first one available. ;D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 12:41:52 am by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 12:33:41 am »
Hmmmm...I'm so metally buried in Native American designs that I forget that there are many things that are unorthodox about this bow.

First of all, the cross section is oval.  This is not the most efficient design.  Both the back and the belly are more likely to fail than with a rectangular-shaped cross section.  Two things prevent breakage in this case.  One, the cable on the back reduces the strain on the wood tremendously.  Two, ashe juniper is excellent in compression.  The rounded belly does compress excessively though, resulting in higher than normal set.  This is not necessarily all bad.  The bow is much less likely to explode.  It may just keep taking more and more set until it loses all of its spring instead of breaking.

The thread is also NOT the same as sinew.  The thread actually "stacks" much quicker than sinew.  When I make the "real" bow using real sinew, I expect less draw weight for the same amount of mass.

There are no nocks.  The string stays in place for three reasons:  the tips taper sharply in the area where the string is attached, both ends of the string have slip knots, and the wrapping on the tips helps to hold the string in place...due to friction and the irregular surface.

I am using a pinch grip with three fingers under the arrow.  This causes the lower limb to bend more on a bow that is symmetrically tillered.

The 20" draw is quite short and seems very inefficient.  For the purpose of close range shooting, this draw length is adequate, however.

Ashe juniper is not a well known wood.  Even in its native range, it's called "cedar" and is considered a trash wood or an invasive species.  Also, the heartwood on ashe juniper is great for making pencils but pretty much junk as bow wood.

OK, that's enough of my ranting.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 12:47:47 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline El Destructo

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,078
  • Longhaired Crippled Hippie Biker And Proud Of It!!
    • Desert Sportz Primitive Archery
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 02:09:27 am »
Sweet Bow....but what You Packin............ >:D
As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up ways to kill one another.Why do you think we invented politics and religion.
Think HEALTHCARE Is Expensive Now,Wait Till It's FREE
Do Or Do Not,There Is No TRY
2024...We Will Overcome

Offline sailordad

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 10:58:56 am »
Sweet Bow....but what You Packin............ >:D

good eye Mike,didnt even notice it untill you mentioned it
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 12:37:46 pm »
Hahaha...You guys are more interested in what I'm packin'??

Sorry, it's just a cell phone.  Blackberry or some such contraption.  Work stuff.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 12:43:01 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2010, 09:47:20 pm »
OK, better pictures and stats:










Mass of bow + string:         9.7 oz.
String weight:                      86 gr.
Length:                              49 in.
NTN:                           45-1/2 in.
Poundage:             43.4 lb @20 in.
FPS with 438 gr arrow:     121.2 fps
Brace Height:                  4-1/2 in.
Set:                               1-1/2 in.

Relative Humidity:        70% (It rained today)
Temperature:              73 F

Number of strands in cable:  180
Number of strands in string:  120-150 (can't remember)



« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 10:55:39 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline sailordad

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2010, 09:53:02 pm »
coming from you i knew it was gonna be something special
but by looking at them stats that is one bad ass little stick right there  >:D
i love the primitive appeal and attitude of it
once again you lived up to your screen name
cause jack you are crafty  ;)
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 09:56:40 pm »
Thanks!  Glad you like it.  I'm going to follow this up with a bow made with real sinew.  I'm excited!   ;D
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline bubby

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,054
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2010, 05:17:04 pm »
look in half-eye's posts, I think he posted an inuet bow a while back
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 01:55:48 pm »
OK
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline Josh

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,367
  • Silence is golden but duct tape is silver.
Re: Cable-Backed Bows?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 03:53:36 pm »
Very Nice bow, Jack!  Got it bookmarked for Sept Self BOM contest too.  :)
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln