Maple backed cherry in Progress

[Pappy]

Looking good so far.
   Pappy

[HatchA]

Man, it looks so narrow at the thumb contour... looking very nice though! Following this build with interest.

[ken75]

funny how much you think about building one after you complete one, sometimes im planning the next while building one ,pretty ballsey going that narrow through the handle hope it stays together. very good so far im interested to see some limbs bent on this one.

[Thwackaddict]

  :'(Sorry guys but I broke it!!Only had two more inches to go.she broke at 26"heres the damage.And Yes i almost cried.I'm pretty sure i got a hinge mid limb wasnt nvery noticeable till i got it to 26 and kapow!!!Guess I'll slow down a bit next time.Bottom limb was perfect according to my gizmo.It looked good and i hit my weight jus took to much out of midlimb.I think i done it when i sanded out my tooling marks.What do you guys think.I got pics of it tillered to 16" got caught up and forgot to take more as i tillered it out.Handle held up good,nice and rigid felt good in hand too.


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[Thwackaddict]

here it is tillered and unstrung  right before it broke.So i decided lets see what could have been an threw some tung on it,Dammiit man i did cry then!It was beautiful.good thing i glued up another while workin this one !!LOL

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[sulphur]

it really looks like the backing failed.  tiller did look just a bit rushed.  in the unbraced profile it was getting a bit of set in the last 1/3 of each limb.  that looks like where it broke.  that was the best looking handle i have seen in awhile.  mind if i copy it??  i bet you learned a lot on that one, try try try again.

[Thwackaddict]

sulphur shoot me an email and I will get you some better detailed closeup pics of the handle.i was really proud of the way it came out.Yea i think i need to slow down tillering.when you tiller how do you go about it.Go an inch and get same bend,flex then go again?I think i'm just rushing it,trying to get to full draw and keep my weight.I did hit my weight tho.it would have shot hard and fast.I'm goin to try again and see if I can mimic this one.Think heat would help the backing or belly.I got one glued up but on the next i was goin to heat and compare to no-heat.see what works best.Thanks for the handle compliment at least i got it right!LOL It is 1/4"cherry and 1/8"Maple.Started at 12 inches and stepped back 1 in. until top two and put two peices of cherry on top cherry lam.1.5"lng and 2" long with .5" or so between em.I got better pics of it I can send you.Thanks man you been a tremendous help!!

Thanks to all watchin this build,sucks that it broke,gimme a few days and i will repost sister build

[elk country rp]

it really looks like the backing failed.  tiller did look just a bit rushed.  in the unbraced profile it was getting a bit of set in the last 1/3 of each limb.  that looks like where it broke.  that was the best looking handle i have seen in awhile.  mind if i copy it??  i bet you learned a lot on that one, try try try again.

i agree with sulphur - i can't see the hinge, and back looks like a classic tension failure to me (i'm no expert though). just out of curiosity, how much time did you put into making the tapers smooth & floor tillering before you strung it? and how much exercise did you give it after each scraping/rasping session?

what do you think about starting the next one at 68" & piking it as needed? what do you think about focusing the reflex from mid-limb out, too?

seems like most of the set i've observed in my own cherry bows is at mid-limb.

did you floor tiller the belly a little before you glued it?

what do you think of me bombarding you with questions?  

"Curious Rob"

[Thwackaddict]

Rob- so the back failed and not the belly. ???I spent prolly an hour and a half or so getting it to bend it was really really strong outta the form,as for the tapers i kinda did them as i went,should i taper them first and what thickness am i looking for,it was 3/4 at fade,5/8 mid limb and 3/8 tip.I excercised it 40 times after each scrape,as for 68" i cut my cherry down to 65" and will have to wait for more wood.after tryin to glue my handle to reflex in the center i think i will glue handle first next time then back it.Kinda went backwards i guess.I didnt floor tiller belly at all.Guess i was scared of comin in under weight.I love the questions keep em comin.Thats how I learn best.I'm an asker If i dont know rest assured I will ask until i find out and off i go.I appreciate your input.This forum has been such a help and all are great people.Now after your takedown comment,got da wheels turnin and jus so happens that my form didnt glue up good in the handle section but the limbs did so I may Put er on da choppin block and see if i can break another limb .LMAO Cant make it work if ya dont try!!Thanks

[elk country rp]

that's what it looks like to me- most of my belly fails have been pretty unspectacular- more of a "crink- crunch". yours looks like it was a worthy explosion.

i think you were right on track with the dimensions, but i'm firmly rooted to my soapbox on smooth tapers. with cherry's reputation for chrysaling, it seems like your tempting fate by not getting them in order before bending. but- in looking at the pics, i can't honestly say if floor tillering & obsessing on tapers would have made a difference for you on this bow. i prefer to think of floor tillering as an extra measure of insurance, and it helps me pinpoint where to focus the reflex- if a belly floor tillers a bit whippy, then i know to put more reflex in the outer limbs & maybe leave the inners as they are. if it floor tillers with too much bend in the handle, then i add a power lam.

i'm still not too trusting of maple for cherry either, but that's just me- seems like most other guys have done fine with it. you may want to check your other rips to see if there's a bit of figuring or swirl to the grain in the same spot on another rip. i guess that would go for the bellies too. i managed to overlook a check in a hickory backing strip last week that caused a R/D hick/maple/ipe trilam explosion, so wood defects are kinda fresh in my mind.

i suspect you'll get some more experienced folks weighing in on the cause of death. i don't put too much stock in my knowledge atm- i'm all hopped up on painkillers  ><

[Thwackaddict]

Lol,I feel ya man!Mind kinda numb,mines been the same way for the past two months.Had a disk replaced in my neck.I got an idea on how to fix this bow and I'm at it now.I'll post some pics of my idea this evening with the progress.I will try floor tillering an tapering tthe belly on my next one.I am bound and determined to make this bow work as well as the wood combo.Thanks again!!

[youngbowyer33]

i think you would have saved a lot of time if you didn't shape your handle before you were done tillering. Next time maybe you should shape it after, to at least know that it won't break. JMO

[sulphur]

youngbowyer hit it right.  i never shape a handle till i know it will shoot and either close to final tiller or right on it.  I also was thing it might have been just a bit on the short side.  Mine are usually 68" from tip to tip and 66" ntn.  as far as how i tiller,  thats a long anwser to type.  I cut a straight taper on my limbs starting 3" past the fades.  i cut the limb thickness uniformly at about 9/16 to 1/2".   the intial tiller will be stiff in the outer halves.  then i round off my corners back and belly.  then i start removing wood from the outer halves in a stepped pattern.  more towards the tips and less towards the fades.  i am actually thickness tapering the limb a little at a time.  probably best just to watch my video build along.  it explains it better.  start with part 10 thats where the intial bending is and part 11 starts the tillering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxIfexDQWks

[Thwackaddict]

YB33-thanks I'll have to remember that.Never really thought of it but i did it on my self bow so why not on this one.

Sulphur-Thanks I'll check it out.I'm workin on a fix but we'll see if its gonna work tommorow.Thanks for the help.

[ken75]

this has been said but heres 2 cent , i would bet on backing failure , try to get a hold of hickory or elm even for backing , also before you bend any round the corners of the back of the bow this will hold down the chance of splinters. second tiller looked fine to me a little whipped but still fine. handle shape after , i made this mistake on several bows lots of time in shaping and sanding then they broke. judging from the wood working ive seen from you so far my guess is that you will splice a newe limb on this one ! good work , keep trying , and have fun