Understanding cane spine

[jonathan creason]

I'm getting ready to jump head first into this whole cane arrow making thing.  I've got about got all the materials gathered to make my spine tester, got a good bit of river cane drying, and I've got some Tonkin on the way.

Anyway, I think I'm starting to understand how you adjust the spine on cane for length, etc.  My question is about the dynamic spine in relation to head weight.  I'd like to shoot something in the 150-175 range, provided they fly well.  The bow I have on the way is supposed to finish in the 50-55# range.

[aero86]

well, since the cane/bamboo is tapered, you add a bit of spine for that, you add spine for each inch over 28, and you add spine for every 15 grains over 125 i believe.  someone correct me if that last bit is incorrect.

so if you have an arrow thats 29 inches, with a 150 grain head, id say shoot a 65# spined arrow  maybe more with that head.

[DanaM]

Tapered shafts reduce spine somewhat, in the 5 to 10 lbs range, leave em long and if their to week cut em down little by little

[Mechslasher]

depending on how much your cane tapers, you will need to add 5-10#.  i would need your cane's taper, arrow length, bow weight, center cut, recurve or longbow, and exact point weight to give a "good guess" as to what spine you will need to look for.  all of these factors go into a formula i use to calculate spine.  

[aero86]

i still wanna see that formula mech

[gutpile]

Man thats funny...my cane arrows are spined at 60 to 75 lbs.......I shoot a 53 to 60 lb pull on my bows....foreshaft each arrow about 5 inches..points weigh around 90 to 115..all fly great...when I get under 55 is when they fly funny...over 75 also....so thats my range....gut

[Mechslasher]

i don't know about funny but from what you describe and i infer about your setup, your arrow spine should fall right in there for your bows.  cane is very forgiving for being over spined, but doesn't handle being underspined very well.

[gutpile]

Chris I just find it funny that modern man even primitive hunting modern man goes through all this hoopla and formulas to get his arrahs to fly and spine right..its suppose to simple not complicated...why make it that way.....just sayin...btw no way am I trying to offend anyone...gut

[Mechslasher]

no prob on my part, just thought i had missed something.  if the truth was known, i would bet the farm that primitive man dealt with the exact same "formulas."  he just didn't just numbers like we can today.  i would imagine he went much more by feel, which i guess is simpler.  imo, to shoot arrows accurately he would have to understand something of the physics of flight.  there is no way around the physics of making an arrow hit where you aim.  we can "simplify" things to a certain point but an arrow is one of the most complicate projectiles ever invented.  of course, primitive man would not have to take into account recurves, center shots, taper (if he only shot cane arrows), length, or point weight because all of these functions would pretty much stay the same.  i will concede on these points as being simpler.  all he would need is one arrow that hit where he aimed and just replicate it over and over.  i also wouldn't think that many primitive men had a dozen bows to choose from for a particular hunt so all his arrows would have been made for one or maybe two bows at most.  of course, i have been accused on many occasions of over thinking "things" so take what i say with a grain of salt.

[gutpile]

Chris..you hit the nail on the head..all he would need is one arrow that hit where he aimed and just replicate it over and over..actually this is what I did..I didn't go through any formulas..nor did I weigh my heads or foreshafts...I didn't even own a spine tester at the time......you can hand spine cane very easily as I am sure you are aware of....the one statement I do not agree with is...but an arrow is one of the most complicate projectiles ever invented. Only if you make it that way.....to me..it is one of the simplest..especially cane...it is already an arrow..you just have to straighten it....compared to making one from a wild rose shoot or red osier...I'll spend my time heating cane every time....all I am saying...and I am not picking on you.. why try to make something so easy, more complicated to understand...bullets and shotgun shells, are much more complicated IMO....but on second thought...I guess once you lay out a formula and every body can follow that formula, it is easier to some ,than trial and error....but trail and error is my middle name with a capital E...LOL....BTW...I love some of your cane pics...they are sweet..those self nocked with antler sure look time consuming too....
On another note...I never add a self nock to my cane..I try to lay them in a node but if they don't work out that way I just cut my groove and wrap with sinew and never have I had a cane split on me....knock on wood....never...have a great day bro..keep up the good work...

[DanaM]

Good arguement Chris, I do believe we over complicate thing most times, I bought a Ace spine tester
and like the challenge of figuring stuff out but I think the easiest way to go would be 2 nails 26" appart hang
a weight off it and trace the arc then match shafts to the arc. You could have a template for everybow you own

[Mechslasher]

cane is an enigma.  it can be the easiest and the most puzzling of arrow materials.  to me it is also the easiest to straighten, but if each is not orientated the exact same way, then you have the making of a terrible headache trying to figure out what the hell is going on.  i remember the first set of cane arrows i ever made.  i made them just like i would a set of poc and started shooting.  not two arrows hit in the same place.  i struggled with those arrows for days before artb asked me if i had the stiffest side of each arrow against the strike plate?  i checked and no two were oriented the same way.  i stripped them and refletched, then they flew like darts.  as to being complicated, watching how an arrow paradoxing in flight compared to a bullet is like night and day.  a bullet depends souly on the rifling in the barrel to impart the stabilizing spin.  while an arrow depends on itself to impart spin and then stabilize itself, after suffering the deforming effects of going from 0 to 160fps, enough to hit where it's aimed.  watching an arrow spin its way to a target to me, is one of the most beautiful and majestic ballets there is to watch. 

[artcher1]

Gone are the days of making a dozen cane arrows, keeping the one or two that flew good, and selling or giving the rest away! So much for those days  ! Cane arrows are just fun to make up and shoot period, foreshafted or not. Have fun you guys! ART

[jonathan creason]

Maybe I'm still holding on to a small part of my wheelbow days.  I'm trying not to over-complicate things.  Really, I'm just looking to get myself in the ballpark to save a little time (there just doesn't seem to be enough time anymore) when it comes to finding out if they fly good.

Thanks for the info everybody.  Gives me something to work with.  Right now I don't have enough info handy to be able to give to plug into your formula Mechslasher.  I'll try to gather all that and get back with you.

[gutpile]

Jon...just grab an old arrow that shoots fine ...hold in hand and bend...to get the feel of the spine...you don't need a spine tester ..then find a cane, once straightened and get close to that one you need..If foreshafting get one on the stiffer side.....its not complicated and cane is very tolerable....and have fun with it..I really enjoy taking a wretched, crooked as a politician, piece of cane and turning it into a straight as store bought piercing projectile ....I can spin my cane once head is mounted with no wobble period....they spin right, they fly right...as long as you are in the ballpark..you are gonna be satisfied with cane...gut