Author Topic: holmegaard challenge--all bows finished...pics galore  (Read 51989 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

radius

  • Guest
holmegaard challenge--all bows finished...pics galore
« on: August 28, 2009, 01:08:17 pm »
THE OBJECTIVE:  test the holmegaard design to determine what is the ideal ratio of bending limb:non-bending lever tip, to maximize cast and minimize set.  Here is the beginning.  Everyone please participate and post if you want to.








As you can see, all these boards are equal length, thickness, and width.  They are all going to pull 50# @ 28".  The only difference is the ratio i just mentioned.  We will see how things go.


« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 02:49:53 pm by radius »

Offline Josh

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,367
  • Silence is golden but duct tape is silver.
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2009, 01:12:27 pm »
cant wait to see how this test turns out.  Might have to use the winning combination to make myself one.  Good luck!     :)   -the psycho  ;D
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

Offline youngbowyer33

  • Member
  • Posts: 606
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2009, 01:32:06 pm »
its gonna be a good test
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

Offline wakosama

  • Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 02:22:35 pm »
Thank you... This I can appreciate.  will be very helpful.
Think as if your LIFE depends on it... IT DOES...!

Offline sailordad

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 05:38:58 pm »
well its a hell of a plane
but cannot participate,dont have wood to waste
only have a limited supply of decent bow wood,cant afford to experiment with it like that
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline Parnell

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,556
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2009, 07:50:10 pm »
Alright Radius,
I found some 4/4 quartersawn white oak today, myself.  I think your experimental design with the three bows will provide more testable evidence but I'll throw in what I can with this.  I have two pieces; 66" and 55".  I'll be working this evening to lay out some design.  The longer board has a knot but it isn't deep and can be incorporated into the handle, so shouldn't affect things.  I'll show you what I lay out later. 

I'm going to try to come up with a goodnproper scientific hypothesis for the test.  And I thought I'd never use scientific experimental design from high school. ;)

Here's my boards: 

[attachment deleted by admin]
1’—>1’

radius

  • Guest
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 03:28:24 pm »
Parnell, ur tiller tree is so low you must have to crouch to use it!

Last night i made the first adjustment, by reducing the tips of all three boards by 1".  The only reason for this is that i found it easier to reduce a ratio using 18:12 rather than 18:13.    So now, all the bows will be 64" long overall.  The other specs will be the same:  50# draw @ 28", 1 15/16" width of bending limb.

the ratios are 2:3, 1:1, 3:2...

Offline Knocker

  • Member
  • Posts: 271
  • Tumwater, Washington
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 04:55:02 pm »
I haven't tried a Holmgaard yet, so I'll enjoy following these builds.  Radius, what is your wood, and the width and thickness please?

Keith
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from
us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down
and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set
lightly upon you, and may posterity forget ...

radius

  • Guest
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2009, 02:04:35 pm »
beg your pardon. 

SPECS

white oak, quarter sawn, 4/4.  It is about 17/16 thick, reducing to 15/16 after both sides are cleaned up.  Each stave is 1 15/16" wide and 64" long. 

#1.  12" lever (including transition), 18" bending limb (including fades)

#2.  15" lever, 15" bending limb.

#3.  18" lever, 12" bending limb.






Offline sailordad

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2009, 02:09:20 pm »
well i am ging out on a limb here right now and i am going to say that
if you tiller them all out properly that the bottom one will be the best performer with the least set
only due to the fact it has a longerworking limb
so keep us posted and lets see how things shake out
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline adb

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,339
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 02:45:35 pm »
Hey, Scott
This is very cool! Excellent experiment. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Robert

  • Guest
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 06:17:58 pm »
I think that either the top one will break, or the others will be overbuilt if they all are made for the same poundage.

Longer levers decrease (tighten) the bend radius of the working limb, so the limb will have to be thinner to keep the stretching and compressing of the wood fibers within allowable limits.  But a thinner limb bends more easily (stores less energy), so it must be made wider to compensate.

It looks like you are going to make them all the same width.  If you can get 50# out of that long-levered bow without it breaking or becoming a limp noodle, then that means your oak will handle more stress than the other two designs will place on it, since they will have greater (less tight) bend radii.  Unless they are made thicker in the working limb, you won't be working the wood fibers very hard (overbuilt), and if they ARE made thicker, they will be much higher poundage than the other bow.

In other words, I think that the width of the working limb should increase significantly as you make the levers longer, if you want to get meaningful results.  You could still do this with your blanks as you have them now, but you might need to drop the target draw weight some.

I would start with the longest-levered one, and see what kind of poundage it will handle without taking excessive set, then make the others to that poundage, narrowing the limbs as necessary to achieve target draw weight with minimal set. 

Whatever you decide to do, I'll be looking forward to the results.

-Robert

radius

  • Guest
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2009, 06:49:44 pm »
Hey, Scott
This is very cool! Excellent experiment. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

me too!

radius

  • Guest
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 07:02:37 pm »
Robert!  Sounds like you've thought this through more than i have! 

As for increasing the width of the limbs as the lever gets longer, that is a good idea that i never thought of.  Hm...

Now i'm confused.

I cut the limbs this way today.







I could still narrow the longer limbs, as you suggest.  I cut into the belly enough to leave 5/8 " material to work with.  Hm...

AKAPK

  • Guest
Re: holmegaard challenge
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 07:11:26 pm »
I always wondered if the Real Holmgaard Bent slightly in the middle do to its shorter length. I found that the longer the limb the More slower and shock I got but that may be just my attempts to figure out what they had to use back in their time, short people I do believe they were, also I would think since their bows were shorter they would be a less weighty Bow ???