Author Topic: Phragmites cane  (Read 2567 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ibex

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Phragmites cane
« on: August 20, 2009, 06:20:37 pm »
Is there a difference between Arundo donax and Phragmites cane? If so, doe's Phragmites grow in So Cal?
𝙄𝙩'𝙨 𝙣𝙞𝙘𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙗𝙚 𝙞𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙧𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙩, 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙞𝙩'𝙨 𝙢𝙤𝙧𝙚 𝙞𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙧𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙩 𝙩𝙤 𝙗𝙚 𝙣𝙞𝙘𝙚.

Offline billy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,233
Re: Phragmites cane
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 12:21:56 pm »
Hi Ibex,

Yes, I believe there is a difference between the two.  I've examined numerous phragmites reed arrows in the Smithsonian, and the joints are noticeably different than the joints in Arundo donax.  I once stopped in southern Illinois and cut some phragmites reed (at least that's what I thought it was) and was very disappointed in its weakness and flexibility.  Of course it was green, so that may have made a difference, but it was so lightweight that there was no way I would have used them for serious arrows.  I could actually just pinch the reed between my fingers and crush it flat! It also had bad kinks at the joints, so I eventually just threw it away.

I have driven thru central and southern CA and seen large stands of Arundo Donax along I-5, especially north of San Francisco.  Arundo is far superior to the reed that I collected in southern Illinois.  It is stronger, heavier, and straighter.  I use it a lot, and have been very impressed with it.  It makes great arrows. 
Marietta, Georgia

Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,628
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Phragmites cane
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 01:47:43 pm »
Good question.

I have used both and I think there are some differences in the plants...but it's hard to tell the difference if you're looking at arrows made from the two plants.

I'm not an expert on plants and I'm not sure if I got this right, but I think the cane that grows here locally is phragmites.  I guess I could call it "western phragmites" because it seems to be different from the "eastern phragmites" I've seen.  The local phragmites (here in West Texas) might be a variation of Arundo donax that has acclimated to dry conditions...I don't now.  The biggest problem in identifying the type of cane we have here locally is the fact that many Native American arrows were made from it and appear to be very strong.  It's unclear if the cane used for these arrows was brought to the new world by the Spanish or if it is a native species.

The biggest difference in Arundo donax (or giant cane) and "western phragmites" is that the growth rate and size of giant cane is much greater.  Giant cane can get to 25 feet tall in one year!  Our phrag grows to about half that size in two years.

The other difference is that Giant cane needs a lot of water.  I've seen our phrag growing in very dry, desert-like areas where it would be impossible for many other plants to grow, let alone Giant cane.

The nodes are very similar but the walls of our phrag tend to be thicker than the Giant cane.  You cannot crush "western phrag" by pinching it between your fingers.

Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 01:52:02 pm by jackcrafty »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline ibex

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: Phragmites cane
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 05:52:33 pm »
Thanks for the great info. What species of cane are the Paiute and Chumash arrows that I see in the museums made of? Steve
𝙄𝙩'𝙨 𝙣𝙞𝙘𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙗𝙚 𝙞𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙧𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙩, 𝙗𝙪𝙩 𝙞𝙩'𝙨 𝙢𝙤𝙧𝙚 𝙞𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙧𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙩 𝙩𝙤 𝙗𝙚 𝙣𝙞𝙘𝙚.

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,633
Re: Phragmites cane
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 06:25:01 pm »
Arumda donax is an exotic species and was brought in to this country way after Europeans came here. Phragmites is a native species(I believe) and is probably what was used by the Native American for arrows and atlatl darts.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC