question on Torges' handle method...

[The Burnt Hill Archer]

...specifically in his hunting the babmoo backed bow video. from what i can tell he doesnt leave the handle area on his osage boards thicker than the rest of the bow. from my own expierience, and from hearing of others i would think that the handle would pop off.

ok now for my question, what does he do different that works? i really like the look of his handles, and im making a couple of hickory backed osage bows and would like them to have the same handle section/fadeout look ect. but im skeptical.

for thoes of you that do laminated bows with glued on handles, whats been your expierence? which way should i go?


Ive been out of the loop for quite a while, and am really looking forward to these projects, so any help is MUCH appreciated. My 7 month old son is in the hospital with R.S.V. right now, (but should be comming home today), so i might not be able to reply for a while, so bear with me if it takes a while.

Thanks in advance!
Phil

[knightd]

Sorry to hear your little one is sick!! My thoughts are with you.. As for the handle's deans blanks they are just a shade thicker in the handle section.. I have done a couple handles like you want to do.. I have never had one pop off.. But you will need to use a good glue!! I use urac-185.. tight bond wont work.. I also suggest that you make the fades have a long taper and I like to use multiple lams in the handle..here is a pic to give you a look at what I'm trying to say..

[Jesse]

David knows what hes talking about The safest bet is to have the handle area thicker before adding a handle piece. Notice in the picture where the woods meet it looks like tiny little teeth on the edge due to a rough or toothed surface prior to gluing.  You need that as well in my opinion.

[Justin Snyder]

If you put a power lamination between the bamboo and the wood you can stop it from bending. I like to do it this way a lot so I can rip the piece that the limbs come from thinner and not waste all that good wood.  You can build up the riser from scraps.  Sorry, I don't have any good pictures on my new computer. 

[adb]

Torges likes to use what he calls a bulbous handle. I've copied this style on many bows, but I'm sorry I don't have any pics. Mike Westvang at Dryad Bows uses this style, and you can check out his bows on their website. Do a google search for Dryad Bows, and check out their "Hunter" model.
Like any bow with a built up riser, if you don't want it to pop off, you have to design and tiller so it doesn't bend there. I also like to use thin lams under the riser, to build it up, make the riser stronger, and make it look nice. I haven't had any problems with TB2 or TB3 not holding, however. Actually, I've never had a glue failure with either for anything.

[The Burnt Hill Archer]

thanks for the coments guys.

David, That makes sence. and thats exactly the look im looking for. I am going to be using urac.

Jesse, good idea about roughing it up before glue up, thanks for that.

Justin, I do like the look of the power lam, but my only question on that is how to go about feathering it out to get it even? also, would a power lam over the hickory do the same thing? like if i run it a couple of inches out past the handle fades?

ADB, I like the bulbous handle too, in fact its become the most comfortable for me to use. this is one of my hickory bows ive done.


i actually forgot about the Dryad guys. i talked with Mike at the last ETAR for quite some time. thanks for reminding me about them!

Phil

[Justin Snyder]

I don't like the idea of the power lam on the hickory because it could have the same issues as the handle.  I usually pre taper the lam before I glue it on. I often feather it in by taking a little extra wood off the back of the limbs to aid in feathering. Justin

[knightd]

here is a pic To give you a something  to look at.. This is a bamboo backed Osage and the core is thiner in the middle than could be used for a hunting weight bow. So I put in two power lams and a bamboo center core. Starting at the bamboo backing it is bamboo,Osage,bamboo,Ipe,Osage, (core)Ipe,purple hart,Osage and coco bolo (handle).. The Osage and Ipe power lams essentially form the fades of the bow.. hope this helps.

[The Burnt Hill Archer]

thanks guys, that clears a bunch of stuff up. i am deffinately a visual guy, so the picture really helps David. for the first bow, im going to try to keep it pretty simple, just to get used to this style of build. but ill probably get tricky with the second.

if anybody else has anything to add, please do. and ill probably be back with more questions as i go.

Thanks again!
Phil ~ man its good to be back!

[Catahoula]

Hi,

This thread is very timely for me as I have a bamboo backed osage bow with a maple veneer and purple heart handle just glued up.  I was waiting to try to figure out the handle and the tillering (my first time).  Any suggestions on books that might help me understand the tillering process better?  I was considering "Hunting the Osage Bow".  The Torgess video was excellent but the tillering process still has me stumped.  Also glad to hear someone else uses TB III with good results as I switched to TB III after reading the comparison of glues in Fine Woodworking a year ago.   I have had great success with gluing up my flutes and other woodworking projects with TB III.  If it doesn't work out I will be the first to say so and switch to URAK.

Thanks for any comments,
Rand

[The Burnt Hill Archer]

First off, welcome! and im glad to hear somebody else is getting some use out of this thread. as for the books, there are a bunch. I havnt read Torges' book, but ive heard good things about it. The Bowyer's Bible series is a great resource for all things bow making. Paul Comstock's book "The Bent Stick" is another. There are more, but my mind is drawing a blank right now.

As for the glue, ive never used Urac before, so this will be new territory for me. I have used TBIII alot however and swear by it for most applications. Im also a flutemaker, and have been expirementing  with different glues for them. On my latest flute, i used 2 ton epoxy and it worked great. the only problem with that is that i dont really see any advantage to using it over TBIII, and TBIII is easier to use.

but getting back to bows, i have heared about alot of people just using TBIII for glue-ups, so you should be ok. Ive only done 1 other glue-up before these, so im probably not the one to be answering your question. but there are ones on here that are very expierenced with these, and im sure they will chime in.

And just in case anybody was wondering, we brought my son home from the hospital today, and he is doing great. thanks for all the prayers!

Phil

[Timo]

Phil, how bout another iron for thought? I glued up a bbo for a friend,my urac was bad so I used gorilla white glue.(non foaming) went on just like the tb glues.He took it to texas last week and it has held.8 hr braces and shooting javies.it's holding so far.

Urac is best for wood to wood,IMO but so many have had luck with others. Some don't tooth the wood before glue up.but I think it really helps. Just things to think on. As for the book HOB, It has alot of good stuff in it.I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner,but for anyone that has built a few bows, it will help them.

As for the bulb handle, just get it glued well, with a quality glue, get a good taper on you fades/dips, and you'll get along well.

[Justin Snyder]

Timo, the white gorilla glue is the equivalent of TB II.  Tons of guys used TB II before III came out without any problems so I see no reason why you shouldn't use Gorilla Wood Glue.  Justin

[Pat B]

When I make a bulbous handle I add a layer of leather on the back of the handle to fill out the grip. Even if the handle has some bend to it the leather will give. I have tried leaving a thin layer of the bow wood on the back but have not been pleased with the results. If the handle bends at all the wood will lift.
   Here are a few of my bulbous handles.

[Catahoula]

Hi,

Thanks for the responses.  I did "tooth" the boo and the osage with a homemade "toother" and used acetone to clean the osage before glue up.  I really liked the handle pics...gives me clearer ideas and also helps me look at the limbs for the tillering process.  Will order books soon.  Sure would like to make the Tennessee Classic...need to read more about how to sign up to make a self bow and the costs and such.  Glad to hear the young one is doing better!

Thanks again for the responses...any thoughts are sure helpful!,

Rand