Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: islandpiper on October 12, 2008, 08:51:20 am
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I made my fourth bow this week, squeezed into free tie between customers and phone calls. It is White Ash, flatbow, backed with a camo print heavy fabric. Pulls 35# at 27". It's pretty, pulls nice, tillered pretty good......I left it a little stiff on the lower limb. Should be a good shooter.
But, here is what I have learned so far: Wood selection is fairly important but bows can be made of just about anything. Design is important, dictated by the type of wood. Making a pretty bow is not a big trick.......beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Tillering is not the big challenge.....just keep looking, and scraping and being patient and the wood will bend to your will, so to speak.
THE REAL CHALLENGE is making a bow as strong as you want it to be. It is easy to make 25-30# bows. Making one pull, and bend and be pretty at 50#.......now, that tis THE REAL CHALLENGE.
Is this one of those things that comes with experience and 40-bows in the corner of the shop? I'm looking forward to you old-timers educating this geezer on this one.
Piper
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It does get easier to hit weight with more experience keith. You start to get a feel for the weoght
as you get more bows under your belt :) Have patience and pay attention to the "feel" of the bow.
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How are you tillering the bow? Explain your method if you can?
Tillering heavy bows is not to hard once you undetsatnd wood removal vrs. weight of bow. It does not take much wood removal to turn a 50# bow into a 40# bow. The heavist I have made to date is 125#@32". i am currently working on a 140#@32". Thsoe are hard because wood remval at those high weights have real drastic differnces.
Is your wood dry? Wet or mosit wood will all of a sudden really loose weight as you work it back to longer draws.
I think one of the most helpfull explanations of tillering is by Jimm Hamm in TBB. That is the way that I do it more or less. You never pull the bow past your target weight on the tillering station. This way by the time you work back to 28" or 32" or whatever your intended draw lenght is you should be right on the money. You pulle the bow a bit on the tiller station right to target weight or a bit less, adjust the tiller, pull a few more inches to target weight, adjust the tiller etc.......
I always make mine 3-4# hevaier as they will loose a few pouds in the first 200 shots. So if I am shooting for 65#30" when I get to 30" I want the bow to be pulling maybe 64#. Thsi way as I shoot the bow in before finish it ends up 60#.
Steve
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The old saying, "You can take wood off but you can't put it back on" holds true here. Start with an overbuilt design....and yes, only experience and lots of 40# bows in the corner will tell you just how much to overbuild.
You pull the bow a bit on the tiller station right to target weight or a bit less, adjust the tiller, pull a few more inches to target weight, adjust the tiller etc.......
This statement is the essence of proper tillering. If you haven't invested in The Bowyer's Bible Series (and other books) then get 'em. Books really opened my eyes to the best ways to build bows. Experimentation might be fun but it will be a slow process.
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Torges in Hunting the Osage Bow has a good chapter as well called Stalking the tiller It is another valuable read in tillering.
Steve
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Piper, I have to admit that I don't exactly use the "draw to target weight method" that I suggested above....I'm too impatient for that.....and I like to rough out my bows to near final dimensions right from the start. (Just wanted to get that off my chest) ;D
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Jack I don't think very many of us do things exactly the way we recomend all the time. I tend to pull my bow to full draw weight from the very start and just increase the inches of draw by tillering. The heavier the bow the less forgiving is seems but in reality if the bow is up to the task it really doesn't make a lot of difference. Steve
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lol Jack, lets you this thred to get things off our chetsts. Here is mine:
I overdraw all my bows by 2" just for the peace of mind that they are very durable. It caused them to take a bit of extra set but that is ok I do not mind.
I feel better now to. ;D
Steve
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Start thick and wide. I've started using Pope's dimensions for ELB's and Comstock's dimensions for flatbows. Starting with those, and proper tillering along the way, I've gotten far fewer udnerwieght bows. And I like them 70# and up :).
But if we're admitting some of our bow making sins, I leave just-tillered-to-brace bows braced for a day to sweat off extra weight and help get the wood used to bending :-X.
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I actually think it is harder to build a lightweight bow on purpose. That's because I'll usually get the tiller worked out and even at a fairly high weight and then I have to remove wood to hit my target. And that's harder than you think when you have a lot of wood to remove.
I disagree that making a bow "pretty" is easy. If you are just talking cosmetics, perhaps. But I have found that things that are well constructed and perform efficiently are naturally pleasing to the eye. There are many examples of this in nature. Take, or example, the shape of a wild salmon. The body is torpedo shaped and gracefully curved and the fins large but knife edged which allows the salmon to easily navigate heavy currents. It is these qualities that make it an immensely beautiful creature. Certainly one can put a nice finish and handle on a poorly designed or crafted bow - but that will not make it pretty anymore than lipstick will on a pig.
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Hey, Piper
If your bows are coming in under intended weight, you're maybe being a bit too impatient, and rushing it. It's a common beginners mistake. Remember: wood which is twice as wide is twice as strong, but, wood which is twice as thick is eight times as strong! In other words, it doesn't take much wood removal to decrease the poundage. All else being equal, a 50# and a 30# bow are not far off in thickness. You've got some good advice here... the best for me has been "stalking tiller" from Dean Torges. You have to sneak up on your final destination... in other words, slow down to a crawl near the end. A couple of scrapes is sometimes enough!! If you haven't read his book, you should, it's very good. Some of it took me a couple of reads, but once you get your head around it, his advice is awesome. Keep going. If you want a 50# bow, start off with that as your goal. I agree with Gordon, it's harder to make a well tillered 25# bow, cuz you have to remove more wood!
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Hey piper, When I under weigt a bow I read in the bowyers bible how to cut equal amounts off each end to bring the weight up. It works wonders for me. Phil
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I have the same problem as Gordon. I cringe when a friend ask me to make a bow for their kids. I have a real hard time hitting Target weight on a kids bow.
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All my bows come in high on poundage. The key is identifying stiff spots early in the tillering process. The tillering gizmo does this for me on the long string.
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I really didn't find anything easy about making bows. LOL. :) Jawge
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Well...I got something that sucks worse! ;D Just helped my bud Tugboat tiller his first bow....we long string tillered till the limbs were bendin even, then put the short string to it and it had about an 8" stiff spot on one limb. I had him scrape a little more on that spot while I was tillerin another bow, leaving him alone to do his own thing. 5 min. later we put it on the tillerin tree with the scale to see where it was at.....after exercising the limbs a few times we pulled it to 50#s @ 28.5"....he wanted 50#s @ 29"!!!! How unfair is that!! I didnt even get to see him struggle with it like the rest of us, lol....and to top it off this bow is a hammer..took a little set, but it hammers an arrow! That just aint right, lol.....Brian
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That's why it's such a good hobby, hey George!!!
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Wow !
reading this thread has really helped me understand the tillering to wieght process alot!!! i had no idea how i was suppossed to accoplish this... and this thread kinda really gave me a good direction.... thanks !!! i mean at least i know how to try and accomplish a targeted wieght now... and now its just trying to actually do it.. is going to be fun... but i really got a pretty good understanding of how i can attemt to do this... thanks...
that is why i love this board!!! i take all this advise and absorb all this knowledge as best i can... i really think that all this advice and all your post are priceless.. i feel very fortunate to be amongst such great people... and i as i read all your threads advise and experiance, i some times feel like im hanging out with friends shooting the shit and talking about bow making... its great..
thanks!!!
and thank god for this site!!!!
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Jack I don't think very many of us do things exactly the way we recommend all the time.
I actually think it is harder to build a lightweight bow on purpose.
I really didn't find anything easy about making bows.
Wow....really? Hmmmm. Definitely food for thought.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/hmmm.jpg)
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like gordon and eddie i also have a tough time getting to lower weights or for that matter higher weights. im just used to building them for the weight i want. i do know my tiller has become much better since i stopped using steel tools and tillering boards. the stones can remove as much or as little as i need giving me the time to really view the tiller as i bend it over my knee. viewing from the knee has really allowed me to see the wood work.
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I really didn't find anything easy about making bows. LOL. :) Jawge
indeed Jawge ;D
I agree with Gordon, making light weight intentionally is rather troublesome.
After while, as all say, you get used to how hard bend equals weight.
now I dont even use tiller tree or scale. Just bend limb until it feels right, then I brace and tiller using mirror.
Works most time and tiller looks great.