Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: David Long on October 11, 2008, 04:24:53 pm

Title: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: David Long on October 11, 2008, 04:24:53 pm
This shrubby tree grows all over my area (NW Montana) and frequently the saplings are super straight and largely knot free. While I was out scouting for yew with a Salish friend of mine he offhandedly mentioned that his elders used to use this tree (Acer glabrum) to make bows. Sure enough, Reginald and Gladys Laubin in their classic "American Indian Archery" mention that the Sakanis (British Columbia) used Mountain Maple backed with sinew. And then there are a number of references to its use in archery in the ethnobotanical literature, mainly Nancy Turner who studies Thompson River Salish and other BC peoples. Oldbow has made a few out of this low density wood, at least one nice one he posted but in PMs he wasn't all that keen on the stuff's properties and promise. I decided to give it a whack and came up with this bow, which I am very pleased with. I designed it after the bows mentioned in the references: long at 67" NTN, sinew backed (elk with a snake skin), pulls 55 lbs at my 26" draw length. Total mass 21.5 oz finished with elk raw hide grip. I wanted an elk hunting weapon and I think I got one, although the elk are not necessarily convinced (the season has yet to end). I have shot the bow many thousands of times and it shows no sign of dying, although the two grouse I shot yesterday (while looking for elk) are dead. It irks me when you read these old (biased) accounts of native people's hunting technology and they say it was not so good or even inferior. One of my motivations for making this bow was to prove to myself that authentic materials are a good way to go. Try this wood if you have it in your area. Some of the great things about it- straight, knot free, easy and very pleasant to work, and no matter how fast you dry it, in my hands it absolutely will not check. Tear the bark off and go at it. This is a major plus in my mind.

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Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Bowbound on October 11, 2008, 04:30:59 pm
Nice bow, hope it will let you get that elk.
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Sidewinder on October 11, 2008, 04:50:50 pm
That tiller is superb. This is the kind of reports we need to hear. LIving in the land of osage I tend to ignore the possiblities of using other woods but this proves they are worth giving a try. Thanks for sharing.  Danny
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: OldBow on October 11, 2008, 09:57:50 pm
Good Job, David. I cruised through there (Kalispell...Libby...Bull Lake...Thompson Falls) just last week. 
Lots of mtn maple, yew, chokecherry, hawthorne.
I'm in Los Angeles tonight but got you bookmarked for Oct Self Bow of the Month.
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: George Tsoukalas on October 11, 2008, 11:49:39 pm
Very nice bow. Congratulations! Jawge
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: DanaM on October 12, 2008, 09:03:09 am
Real nice bow with a good tiller :) Could you post an unbraced picture?
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Sparrow on October 12, 2008, 12:03:41 pm
 Good looking bow.That should make an impression on a wapiti. Nice !
I am going to be over in Montana next month,I will look that tree up and see about getting a stave or two cut.(I hope I have room in the van for all the wood I hope to cut on my visit south this year). What do you think of that wood as an un-backed bow ?      Frank
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: YewArcher on October 12, 2008, 12:27:14 pm
Nice looking bow. I to really like maple for bows.

Steve
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Badger on October 12, 2008, 01:09:44 pm
David, I have made a lot of soft maple bows, they are very fast bows if not underbuilt. I have always wanted to sinew one but havent gotten around to it yet. Most of mine are about 62" long, stiff handle and 2 1/2' wide @ 50 to 55#. Steve
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: hawkbow on October 12, 2008, 04:37:42 pm
That looks like a elk killing bow if i ever saw one, very nice brother, what part of Montana you from... I am an old Bitterroot valley resident.. before all the people ruined the country... look forward to your success with the bow.. post pics of that big bull when you make meat with her... HAWK
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: tpoof on October 12, 2008, 04:47:36 pm
If looks could kill it looks like it could kill  ;D
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Ranger B on October 12, 2008, 08:24:43 pm
Great looking bow.  good luck in the woods brother.
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Pappy on October 13, 2008, 06:05:25 am
Very nice.Nice work on that one. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: TRACY on October 13, 2008, 09:17:46 am
Very nice bow David. Really like the profile, looks like it would shoot fast.

Tracy
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: ballista on October 13, 2008, 01:55:29 pm
 thats a beauty, man. the skins on the back look great, too! did you have to put the bow in any kind of hot box for the skins? I have a very, very old skin that I think i can put to use, but not really sure how to apply. cool bow man, its good to hear about the alternative woods like this. -jimmy
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: David Long on October 13, 2008, 02:11:35 pm
Thanks very much you guys. In reality you all build my bows. I have learned a heap from lurking (leaching) here. Danny, if I lived in the "land of Osage" you'd be hard pressed to dissuade from that great wood too. As it is here, yew is the great prize but not that easy to find really good stuff (shrubby generally). Oldbow you're welcome to drop in on your next loop north. Bookmark that. Dana unbraced profile shows about 1" of follow. The wood (decrowned 3" sapling) started out dead straight, picked up very little reflex after sinewing. Limb width is 1 3/8" with a pretty flat belly. Frank, I am sure this wood could be used unbacked, but I am not sure how wide a good bow would have to be. As Steve pointed out, he makes maple bows wider (but shorter) than this one. One thing I am interested in is how this maple species compares to the other low-density maples. The Indians were big time into this stuff for things like snowshoes, fishing tackle, etc., and there are many comments about how tough the wood is. Jimmy, the snake skins (I bought them) were applied with hide glue. I gave the sinew back plenty of time to cure before I applied them. The idea was to make a bow of all natural materials, although they are not all authentically American. I finished it with shellac to protect from the drizzle we tend to get up here come November. Incidentally I walked this bow all over the woods yesterday braced for 12 hours and didn't see or hear so much as a chipmunk.
Dave
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: ballista on October 13, 2008, 02:18:33 pm
sorry to hear that, but the bow still is a beauty. my fingers are so callassed, i cant shoot very constant at the moment-through tho glove, too. did you clanp that hide glue, or put any kind of preassure onto it? thanks, hopefully you'll have more luck next time man -jimmy
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: David Long on October 13, 2008, 02:30:27 pm
No sir Jimmy, did not clamp the skins. That hide glue shrinks and sucks them on for good once dry. I put a thin layer of warm glue on the sinew back, quickly rub a thin one on the skins (soaked in water, patted damp), then roll them on, squeegeeing bubbles and excess glue out until things start to set up. Other guys on here know much more about this than I do. Seems to work just fine this way. Dave
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: stickbender on October 13, 2008, 08:42:10 pm

     David, that is very nice.  What part of Montana do you live in?  I will be living in Thompson Falls, if the market ever gets back to normal, and I can sell my house here.
                                                                              Wayne
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: David Long on October 13, 2008, 11:46:16 pm
Thanks Wayne. I live in Kalispell, not all that far from T Falls. I am not sure what a "normal" market is, but today wasn't so bad! Dave
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: ballista on October 13, 2008, 11:53:06 pm
cool, that answered my questions about skins, I love how they camoflauge with the woods without having to like paint it or anthing. thanks, -jimmy
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Sparrow on October 14, 2008, 01:15:49 am
 Kalispell is a nice town,I see the price of real estate has gone up since I was living in Troy (1979) Love the Kootenai river and all that country clear down to Thompson falls.Up to the C. Border. good hunting/fishing,good folks too ! Good luck on the hunting.  Frank
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: NTProf on October 14, 2008, 01:29:51 am
Badger,

Just wondered what kind of maple the bow(s) on pp. 100, 104 in TBB 4 are made of?
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: stickbender on October 14, 2008, 02:32:56 am

Yeah, David Kalispell, is not far, from Thompson Falls.  Nice area, and fishing, and hunting there also.  Hawkbow, and Broken Hand live there also.  I have a good Buddy who lives in thompson Falls, and when I told him I was into primitive archery, he told me he was going to have to get a Friend of his who hunts with homemade bows made of Mountain Maple, and I together.  I thought maybe he meant Vine Maple.  But I guess not.  He said he makes his own Bows, and Arrows, and does quite well during archery season.  I will be going back out there again next April, or maybe june.  Can't afford to go sooner.  I have a 30 x 40' garage with a small living quarters in it, that is finished, and ready.  I just had my Buddy winterize it for me, so no pipes burst.  I don't want to pay any more electric bills than I have to . As for a normal market, I mean, When I can sell my house for a decent value, and not just take whatever I can get.  Fishoonah, it is indeed God's country.  My Brother worked in Alaska for five months.  He would move there in a heart beat, but his wife wouldn't.  She had a great time when she visited him up there, but said she could not live there.  It is indeed beautiful, but when it gets cold enough to break metal, it's too cold for this Fla. Boy!  Winter in Thompson falls ain't bad at all, but I just couldn't deal with the Alaska cold.    We will have to get together, when I go out there next year.  Maybe do a little fishing in St. Regis, and have lunch at Little Bear in thompson Falls, and talk feathers and sticks. :)

                                                                           Wayne
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: GregB on October 14, 2008, 08:28:45 am
You did a fine job on your bow, looks like it shoud get the job done on an elk for sure!  ;)
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Hillbilly on October 14, 2008, 11:43:49 am
Mighty fine looking weapon-hope you get the chance to point it at an elk soon.
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: majsnuff on October 14, 2008, 01:00:23 pm
Great bow. Good job.
I just returned from your part of the country neighbor (I am in N. Idaho). I built a silk backed 15lb Mountain maple bow for my Grandson when he was 7, he is now 17 and his little sister shoots that bow when she is visiting. It took a bit of string follow due to over drawing, but it stll shoots good for the kids.
I cut a couple staves of Mountain Maple last month, I plan on building bows from them this winter. Another good wood in our area is Syringa. It is low density but a bit more prone to checking than is Mountain maple
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Roy on October 14, 2008, 02:21:43 pm
Very nice David...
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on October 14, 2008, 05:50:43 pm
very nice, i like the skins on that one. and im ususally not very fond of snakeskins on bows, but that looks good. well done.

Phil
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: robbsbass on October 16, 2008, 12:09:48 am
That is one sweeeeet looking bow.  Nice Job.
What type of maple did you say it was. The skin backing
really sets it off.
Robb
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: stickbender on October 16, 2008, 04:17:45 am

     Majsnuff;
     What does Syringa look like?  How far are you from Murray Idaho?

                                                        Wayne
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Keenan on October 17, 2008, 01:42:37 pm
 Very nice bow David. Great to see and hear of people trying new types of wood. Also love that part of the country. Spent some time myself over by Kalispell. Maybe look you up nexttime I head over there.  Keenan
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: David Long on October 17, 2008, 01:54:09 pm
Absolutely you are welcome in Kalispell any time! Dave
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: majsnuff on October 23, 2008, 12:28:15 pm

     Majsnuff;
     What does Syringa look like?  How far are you from Murray Idaho?

                                                        Wayne

Syringa leaves resembles Serviceberry,  sometimes with bark that in more mature shrubs resembles Mountain Maple. In spring it blooms about the same time as Lilacs with a 4 petal white bloom that looks like Orange blossoms. Here is  a link to a little info on it.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphus_lewisii

Syringa rarely gets over 10' in height and I have never seen one over 2" in diameter. Not saying it doesn't get bigger, just that I have never found any.
I am in Lewiston.
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: Sparrow on October 23, 2008, 01:38:18 pm
 I keep looking at the pictures of that bow.Beautiful ! Good work all around. Hope you run into that elk (Or a deer or a grouse or a snowshoe)  Frank
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: stickbender on October 23, 2008, 06:11:23 pm

     Thanks Majsnuff.  Now what does service berry look like?

                                           Wayne
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: majsnuff on October 24, 2008, 11:50:58 am

     Thanks Majsnuff.  Now what does service berry look like?

                                           Wayne

Wayne, Hope this helps.  All these make fine bows. However most of the Service Berry I have seen has extremely spiral grain.

Mountain maple - Acer glabrum Torr. ssp. douglasii  (http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ACGLD4)

Service Berry - Amelanchier spp (http://www.hort.wisc.edu/mastergardener/Features/woodies/serviceberry/serviceberry.htm)

Syringa - Philadelphius Lewisii  (http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PHLE4)
Title: Re: New Mountain Maple Bow is lethal
Post by: stickbender on October 25, 2008, 12:06:33 am


     Majsnuff, I have seen service berry.  Very pretty shrub.  I have seen it growing wild along road sides.  Didn't know what it was, but sure stood out.  Thanks.  Next time I go back out there to pet my trees, and sleep in my Garage, I will know what kind of bush it is.  Mountain maple, I might recognize also.  Syringa maybe not.  There are some nurseries around and in Thompson Falls, I can stop in and see if they have any.  Also what does Vine Maple look like?  Sorry, but I was curious, and I would like to know these things the next time I am back out there in Montana.  Thanks again.

                                                                                                Wayne