Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: newknapper on August 17, 2008, 11:38:53 pm
-
I have started chasing the ring on this stave I got from Lavern off ebay, am I ok with the ring I have right now or do I need to go lower?
Here is a end shot this end has been taken to one ring
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online004.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online003.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online002.jpg)
-
That top ring is fine. Looks like a nice clean stave. You have enough wood to build any bow you want with that stave. Pat
-
Thanks Pat, its 68" and has three pin knots but all are on the edge. I am really hoping to get a nice bow from it. I am shure I'll be asking more ???'s in the future
-
Ask all you need. We'll give you the answers. If the pin knots can be centered in the limb or eliminated all together, do so. You don't want them on the edge if you can help it. Have fun! ;) Pat
-
Take of the lighter sapwood. Looks like you have enough wood to go to a darker heartwood ring. There's a beautiful ring at about 3/8 inch. That's the best way to handle BL. Jawge
-
The stave is 2" wide do you guys think 1 1/2 to 1 5/8 out to mid limb is too narrow? I was wanting a stiff handled bow. Maybe that will get rid of the knots
-
I'm with Jawge-looks like you're still in the sapwood. I'd take it down to that ring about 5/16" on the tape. 1 5/8"-1 3/4" width works good with locust.
-
What poundage and draw length do you want? And how long is your design going to be? That plays into the choice of width. For example, I'd go with 1 1/2" to midlimb on a 66" n/n bow if I wanted anything up to 55lb@28". Maybe 1 5/8" wide for 60lb+.
Less length for a draw under 28", less width for a lower poundage than the examples I mentioned. This will let you have adequate wood to do the job, but not so much that your limbs are very thin which makes the bow hard to tiller (small change in thickness throws things off).
And yes most people chase a heartwood ring. Its a little stronger and a lot more beautiful.
-
When I looked at the chased back ring it looks like locust heartwood I have chased. I didn't pay attention to the end grain shot. If you still have sapwood rings on your stave, get down to the first heartwood ring for your back.
I have used locust sapwood for a back ring but I cut the wood and know how it was treated while curing. Generally speaking, the heartwood is what should be used with locust. Pat
-
I'm with steve (hillbilly) and George.
Go for the second heart ring. Looks nice and thick.
on the thickness of the bow. I go with steve as well. especially if you havnt worked with locust much or build many bows. I would go 1 5/8 min and more likely 1 3/4.
how long a draw you have and how long a bow u plan? weight? that would help with design planning as well.
luck
N2
-
Yep, i'd take three more rings off. That fourth and sixth one down look pretty bueno!!
-
Agree, make #4 the back of the bow.
-
Sorry, Pat. I figured you didn't note he was into sapwood still and should have stated that. I'd go further down than the second, N2, and get that next thick ring. My experience with BL suggests a 1 3/4 wide and don't skimp on the length. Not sure what draw we are dealing with here. Having said that my very first hunting weight shooter was made from a sapling BL and had a sapwood back. Sometimes you go with what you can. Jawge
-
really nice quality pictures of that end ring and they bring up a point I noticed. On the top picture the 3rd ring is sapwood on the right and heartwood on the left in the same ring. Plus I often note that a ring will be heartwood at the "stump" end of the stave and sapwood at the "top" end of a stave, so I always go down till it is all heartwood, full length and width.
-
I noticed that too. Its an interesting process, the conversion of sapwood to heartwood. This is happening in what is supposed to be a dead material too.
I figure thats maybe one of the advantages of cutting in the winter, the conversion of that year's ring has been completed.
-
I've noticed in ERC that the sapwood/heartwood line will often wander back and forth between several rings. It seems to be one of the funniest woods for that.
-
Thanks for all the comments guy's. I was gonna leave the bow its original 68" and my draw is 27". I would like around a 55-60lb draw but will take what i can get, this is my second BL stave I have worked so I guess you can say I am pretty new at it. I had considerd 1 5/8' wide to mid-limb and 1/2 at nocks. That should net me atleast a 50lb draw ya think?
-
Easily, and if it comes in a little light you have the length to pike it a couple of inches and gain 5+ lb.
Hillbilly yes cedar is kind of a freak as far as heartwood. Black walnut is another one that doens't really seem to aling with a single ring but you don't see it mixed up like cedar.
It'd be interesting to find out what triggers wood that is several years old, to start accumulating these oils. It must have some sort of molecular genetic component. Something triggers the production of the enzymes that make the oils. And why does a tree need heartwood? Prevention of rot I suppose, maybe a slight increase in strength as the tree gets larger.
-
does this look better to yall??? It's bout too dang hot here in south Ga to be doing any thing. Guess I'll get it done a little at the time.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online001-2.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online002-2.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online003-2.jpg)
How does these pin nots look to you guys...they ok? I may be able to eleminate them but I wanted to make shure incase i couldnt
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/newknapper/online004-1.jpg)
-
well,ifn you can keep it narrow than that towards the tips great.
you really dont want them at the edge of the limb,could cause problems when they are at the edge of the limbs.
you might want to wait for the experts though cause i'm still pretty much learning yet,but if it was mine, i would try and eleiminate them as i taper
towards the tip.
good luck
peace,
tim
-
I dont think I'll have a problem, just bieng overly cautious I guess
-
That's looking good so far. Small pins like that don't usually cause a problem at all unless you cut through them chasing a ring. If they fall close to the edge, just allow a little extra width to swirl around them if you can, following the grain like water flowing around a rock.
-
You got past the sapwood and to a heart ring. That's good. I would not worry about the pin knots. They are the edge of that stave anyway, and will probably be avoided when the limb is laid out.
Nice stave you got there. :)
-
Do check the direction of the pins before you remove them. If they are running perpendicular to the back you will be OK. If they run inward into the stave leave a little bit of wood around them and incorporate them into the limb. Pat
-
Do check the direction of the pins before you remove them. If they are running perpendicular to the back you will be OK. If they run inward into the stave leave a little bit of wood around them and incorporate them into the limb. Pat
I dont quite follow ya pat. ??? ???
-
Now why would you not chase the whole thing? You'd already broke a sweat.
I usually ignore pins, they're as strong as surrounding wood. Those won't even be on the bow.
-
those pin knots will be gone once you narrow the tip up to final dimensions.
looking good. Nice stave. Keep at her.
wade
-
I would be personally be tempted to go down another four rings. If you envision a crossection of 1/2" thickness, the wood on down there is going to have a better summer/spring ratio than what you're going to have where you're at now. But you might have issues as far as limb width so I think you're safe where you're at.
-
Knew~
Lookin' good to me, 'ol boy. I love making locust bows and have never had problems with anything that looked like what you have. Should turn out real nice. Just finish chasing your growth ring that you started (which looks like a nice one) and work your stave on down. Be patient though.
~~ Matt
-
Its always been my understanding that you dont leave any sapwood on a locust bow. I guess I heard wrong
-
Its always been my understanding that you dont leave any sapwood on a locust bow. I guess I heard wrong
I'm in the process of taking it off now
-
Bootboy~
You didn't hear wrong, you heard right. It's just that in primitive bowmaking it's real tough to establish any hard and fast 100% rules, cause as sure as you say it, somebody will go and do it different and it'll work just fine. MOST people do remove BL sapwood. I always do.
~~Papa Matt
-
I always have, too. But.....I have read that a good percentage of the old locust Indian bows were a mixture of sapwood and heartwood. I'm going to try making one like that sometime and see how it works.
-
See there ya go. No hard and fast rules.
I've never read that Hillbilly, but ya know what? It would make sense. The indian could peel off the bark off a sapling and do it like HHB, not touch the whitewood at all, or at most scrape off just a ring or two, if that much. We do know that the native always looked for the easiest and most efficient method to get his meat, and this would fit the description.
when you try a sap/heartwood BL be sure and let us know how it turns out.
~~Papa Matt
-
Dirty Dan posted a BL sapling bow on TradGang("Bowyers Bench") that he cut, shaped and let it dry for a week or so. Looks like a cool bow. I think I'll try one.
Maybe Dan will post pics on here for all to see. Pat
-
Pat,
What was the diameter of that sappling when cut?
~~Matt
-
Matt, Dan didn't say what size sapling but from the pics it looks like 2" to 3" in diameter. The bow is 64" long and pulls 54#@26" Pat