Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: whitewoodshunter on August 17, 2008, 06:48:45 pm
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Does anyone here make or wear moccasins? And I'm not talking about the ones you buy at Wal-mart ,I mean real moccasins? I made a pair a couple of years ago and I'm not real sure of how the best way to waterproof or take care of them.They are great to wear in the early part of our archery season here in PA.
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not sure, but i hear tell that bear vrease will pretty much water proof anything.
now ya just gotta sneak up on a big ol' grizz and ask him real polite like ifn he wants to part with his fat. lol
tim
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yes...i wear a pair i purchased at a trading post..... and they are good for stalking, and they are so light too.....
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Fellers, the bottom line is this......
You cannot waterproof moccasin leather. Period.
I use a mix of beewax and tallow.....but honestly....at best....it is a semi-water resitant.....
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Whitewoods,
I have made a couple pairs, and have not seen any real good way to waterproof them except by rubbing several coats of beef tallow (cow lard, for which you can substitute bear fat, buffalo fat, probably deer fat, etc.) into them and then warming them up so they soak up the tallow real good. I don't know how they are "supposed" to be made though, mine are the most primitive kind, that I just cut out some leather paterns and sew together. I am in Indiana, but I agree with you 1000% about the fall hunting appeal though. Feather-light, comfortable, the most quiet things you'll ever wear, perfect for walking lightly on top of crunchy fallen leaves. I am in heaven when I go out in September and early October squirrel hunting in shorts or pants, no shirt and just my mocassins with my cherry bow. It's hard for me to take them off and start wearing my camo boots in November when the rain/snow/temperatures start to fall. And when the frosts start. I have tried it before and it's really not worth in to tromp throught the woods in moccasins, weatherproofed or not, when there is a heavy frost on the ground. Even if the day time temperatures are still in the upper 60's, by the time the sun starts to come up and warm your feet, they are cold and wrinkled from the moisture. I'd like to know how the indians did it.
~~Papa Matt
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yup i love using moccasins, for the same reasons already said. i live in upper Pa and i hunted with mocs last archery season. for the winter time, just add a pair of woolen socks. obviously ifn it gets too cold, that just doesnt make sence, but there ya have it.
my father in law just bought a pair of minetonka moccasins from crazy crow.
there is also a buildallong over on PP to make some knee high mocs.
Phil
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I'd love to see ya wearing them here to Hunt in the Fall.....ah heck Summer for that Matter..these Goathead.....Devil's Horn and Sand Burs would eat you plum up.......along with the Rattlers!!!
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Well I were them and I wore them for the first time in winter this year and well make your souls swade side out the slick side is fun if you like to walk around on skies ;D ;D and there is no water profing them just remember dont wear them wet for to long ;)
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I have a pair my dad made me. They are great, but when the ground is wet, then my feet get wet, plain and simple. We did come up with one solution: make the moccasins oversized, then wear a neoprene sock on the inside for added warmth. I had to wear the sock, then my dad took measurements of my feet and made the moccasins to fit. I haven't worn them with the neoprene socks yet, but I'll give it a try this winter.
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I read an article online writen in 1500s about rough footed Scots. Who went bearfoot alyear except when the frost came then they would go out in the woods kill a roedeer and fashion shoes out of the hide. but they would cut holes in them to let water drain out. Joel
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bare feet aint fun but once you make em tough enough not much gets through them...i like moccasins better though. ;D i walked about a quarter mile though thick brush and thorns barefoot while fishing with my friends and only got two thorns in my foot. HA ;D ;D
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There are commercial leather water proofing stuff like sno pruf, etc. It has mink oil in it. You lightly heat the leather after smearing this stuff on it and it becomes like a liquid, and soaks in, and you wait a few minutes and reapply another coat on it. Worked great on my leather boots in Montana. But will it work for Moccasins? don't know. But as for waterproofing, why?
You are going to get wet in the early morning dew, and any damp boggy type terrain is just going to soak in anyway, and drops of water are going to drain down side of your foot anyway. The neoprene bootie would work. When I was a little boy, about five or so, I hardly ever wore shoes, and we lived on a shell rock road, and we would run up and down that road, and I never had a sharp rock or shell peirce, or cut my skin. I did have some nasty cuts from broken glass, and some nails that made it through. I saw a documentary on an island in the Pacific, where the natives would come running barefoot out to meet the boats comming in over the reefs, and the people getting out on the shallow reef, wearing rubber soled shoes, would have the soles of the shoes shredded in a couple of days, while the islanders, never had any cuts at all. Skin is an amazing organ! 8)
Wayne
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I can tell you that moccasins are the only way to go for stalking, but in the high country dried pine needles and slick mocs can and will cause serious slippage :'( i stumbled on this idea quite because of necessity.. while stalking a huge bull elk i found myself in a pine forest on a steep slope.. i couldn't even stay standing up. the immediate solution was to fix the problem.. sticky pine pitch from a bull pine and some dirt gave my slick soles very good traction on slick logs pine needles and rocks.. And i got the bull ;D at six yards. :o the pine pitch alone lasts for a few days.. walking many miles... good luck brother.. Hawk
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Hawkbow, wow, six yards! :o couldn't you have have turned the mocs inside out, and used the sued or rough side? Or would that not work on pine needles? I definitely agree with you, they can be some kind of slick on smooth soled boots, and shoes!
But the pine sap, and dirt sounds like an excellent idea for better traction. ;)
Wayne
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One good way I've found to slow moisture coming up from the ground is to make an insole out of sheep skin. If you place the wool side down, it will help to slow the ground moisture reaching your sock. I also grease my braintan mocs with bear grease. Works well for me, but definatly not "water proof".
ch
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Here are some mocassins I just bought today that some Cree ladies made. They are dance Mocassins.
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And by the way, my whole motel room smells like smoke.
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Eddie, those are some nice looking moccasins! Look well made. 8)
They should go well with your skirt, I mean kilt ;D...... ;D ;D ;D
Wayne
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I need some bead work on my Kilt, too. Also, I just had to go back and pick up another pair for hunting.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Eddie, those Cree sure make some killer stalking shoes... I really like the hunting pair.. put some liners in them and they would be good winter mocs as well.. Hawk
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I don't make moccisans but I do wear them when I shoot (weather permitting). I got mine from Arrow Moccisans. I far as I know there is no way to waterproof moccisans. I do apply Montana Pitch Blend on them periodically to keep the leather is shape.
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Dang Eddie, those are some nice looking hunting Mocs! She does good work. How do they fit? Did she measure you, or did they just happen to fit. How did you meet her? Is there a Cree settlement around the job site, or Motel? Did you get a nice pair for Cathy also? Might be a good idea...... ;) You know, explain why you went back a second time and all...... ;D But seriously, those Moccasins look sharp, and very well made. The hunting pair look like Apache Mocs. , and the pair on the right, look like Sioux style. Or one of those western Tribes. Anyway, glad you got to get out and do a little more than wade through snow, to find a place to dig. Get any Moose lips yet? :)
Wayne
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Wayne, the small ones in the first picture, uh, with the pretty flower?, they would be for the wife. Most of the population here is Cree or Inuit. I found a shop that sells NA art. the owners are Cree and they sell the stuff for the artisans. They have some cool birch bark, teeth-biting art, but I'd be broke if I bought everything I wanted.
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nice mocs. hell id wear the flowered mocs in the woods...if its for hunting whose gonna care? NOT ME ;D ;D ;D
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Ahhh, good for you, I am sure She will like them. Yeah, I know what you mean about buying all the stuff you want to buy, so you will just have to charge the Canadians more, ;D Well as for waterproofing the mocs how about the " Sealskin" socks, that are water proof? Put them on and then put the moccasins on. At least your feet will be dry. But I don't how the moccasins will feel when they are wet, even with dry socks. any who, have fun up there, and do more research on their beer, and food. ;) And try the moose lips before you leave. I saw Andrew Zimern on the bizare food show in Alaska in a meat processing shop, and they had some moose lips. I think they made head cheese with it. I don't know if they have it in Canada, or in the section where you are at, but with the large Cree, and Inuit population there you should be able to get some. Are you near the coast, or actually just where in the heck are you up there anyway. If you are near the coast, maybe you can get some seal, or whale. I was reading about a Teacher who went up there for a year to teach school in an Inuit or Eskimo village, and she said she told one of the ladies there that she would like to try some whale blubber, just to say that she had tried it. So they brought her a slab of it, and she asked if there was any special way to prepare it, and the lady told her, she just mixes it with "Hamburger Helper". :D Find any rock, or soap stone up there ? Any Fossils? Ivory? Artifacts? June bugs? ;D
Wayne
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Wayne, I can't find anything up here but snow and ice. I'm in Flin Flon but driving 120 Klm a day to Sherridon. I'm staying on the border of Saskatchewan and Manitoba.
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Man, you are in some prime BIG Deer habitat there. And some BIG bears. Saskatchewan has some definite trophy animals!
Were the Moccasins expensive? You need to make a couple of Friends there. Man, don't they have anything closer to the job site?
Seems like you had to do a bunch of driving up there the last time. Don't they do this in the Summer? Are there any pawn, or thrift stores up there? With your luck you could find an English long bow up there, signed by ol Robin his own self! ;D Watch out for Moose eh. ;)
Wayne
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You ought to be able to cut some rug in style with those mocs, very nice.
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Just have to add.....it's really funny reading what you "southern" folk think about Northern Saskatchewan.....no igloos, whale blubber or Inuits here. In fact, it's still about another 650 miles North to the Artic Circle.....
Mullet - you probably bumped into the Dene' (pronounced Den-aay) people otherwise known as Chipewyan, rather than the Inuit. If they told you they were Inuit, they were pulling your leg.
Great leatherwork too - some of that tanned moose hide will last forever. All the oldtimers that I know just buy those little "rubbers" for your shoes and wear them over the leather to keep the soles dry when the ground is wet....might not be primitive, but it's sure common. For the "dancing moccasins" the old timers used to sew rough cotton cloth (duck cotton) to them to make leggings and turn them into something more suitable for walking around the bush.
Cheers,
D
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Dene'....thats dem Chippewa....or da Ojibwe....same Tribe....thats my Ancestors too....
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I was going by what the locals told me. And I was in Manitoba and staying on the border of Saskatchewan. I was working 130KM, northeast of Flin Flon in Sherradon. I know where I was working the people there looked like smaller in stature,squintey eyed orientals and in the town I was staying they were big, tall and cheekbones not so prominent or slanted eyes. Also the Inuit health care center was there.
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Mike, from what I was told, the Chippewa and Ojibwe were a little farther south and east, towards Ontario.
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Oh I know that ....I was just being a Smart ass to Dilligence...... >:D....about the Chippewa being the same as the Michigan Ojibwe.....I know one thing....don't go to the North Slope of Alaska....and ask an Aleut Indian if He is an Eskimo......makes for a Long 16 Week Job with no company to talk to.... >:D
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Too weird Eddie....I'm certain it wouldn't be Inuit as it's so far south. Typically the Cree bands end farther north, say 250 miles north, then it goes into Dene, then into Inuit when you get much farther north or east...like at Churchill Manitoba. Not sure why they would call it the Inuit Health Center, but maybe it was the Cree or Dene glyph-writing that you saw?
There are some significant physical attribute differences between the local Cree and local Dene people. The Dene look Inuit, but generally the Cree look much more like Plains Indians. In fact, historically, the Cree fought with the Dene, and the Dene fought with Inuit. My Mom happens to be here visiting with me (she's 75) [too funny, she just read over my shoulder and scolded me for calling her 75 when she is only 74 ---too funny!!!] and I was explaining this website, and she just said that years ago the old Cree people (elders) wouldn't want to share a hospital room with the Dene, and vice versa.
Does anyone have any information on historical bows from Northern Saskatchewan?
D
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That's funny, You are probally right. There was also an Inuit medical center in the Winnepeg Airport. All was in English and Glyph's. Where I was at it was supposed to be the Western Wood Cree tribe and the southern area of the Caribou Inuit tribal area. I know it was too far north for deer. That's what the locals told me, and I saw 5 Caribou the last day I was there. I also saw Lynx, Snow Ptarmigan, and was told there was numerous wolf in the area.
But , whoever they were, they were nice. And somebody wandered out everyday to check on us, since we were working so far out on the ice. I appreciated the thought.
Something that was cool was a young boy was watching us work when some Geese flew over. He got excited and started calling with his mouth. It was amazing to hear him call natural, hear the Geese respond and circle, and he was about 10 years old. His goose call was better than any recording I have ever heard, and spontaneous.
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Some of those northern kids are really talented. You should check out the King Trapper Contests....really, really high quality calling. Just by mouth alone...not to mention all the other trapper skills.
It's been one of those nights LOL...just before reading this, I was showing my son how to call a Moose, Grandma was calling one too...and my wife even tried..good family fun.
D
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Cool. and I was playing with my Alan Sentell Turkey trumpet call that came while I was gone, and was brought up to date this was the last weekend of turkey season ,here.
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Those ptarmigan are really good eating...nice white meat, but I swear that they can dodge bullets....the caribou were probably "woodland" caribou and they are really stubborn animals. If they come to a small bay on a lake, instead of walking around it, they will just swim right straight across.
Here's a random fact for you. The old timers use to kill moose with an axe (whack on the head) by paddling their canoes up beside the moose while it was swimming and moose float really well, when dead. However, watch out for the caribou in the water as they can get their front forelegs out of the water and flip your canoe.
Man, all this talk of the north really has me missing home....
..hope you get out for a turkey or two?
D