Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: D. Tiller on July 27, 2008, 05:21:45 pm
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Well, I have been building bows now without power tools (Or very few) for a couple years now. I have come up with a few short cuts and was wondering if anyone else has some.
One of my secrets is the use of a handsaw and a chisel. I like to cut down to near the dimensions of the bow with the saw every inch ore two and then chisel out the sections so that all thats left is the bow that I will work with. From that point out I true everything up with a Ferriers rasp then floor tiller with the harsh side until I get her bending. Then put a string on her and use the fine side of the Ferriers rasp to get it to brace height. Then switchout to finer rasps and cabinet scrapers.
How do you guys do it? Lets get some ideas and methods out there and see what really works for hand tools!
David T
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I tried your method but never liked it. I am getting better at splitting so i don't have to reduce the wood as much. I use my trusty drawknife for all the labor then begin to sand the bow and use a surform or rasps until i get close. Then i use a scraper and sandpaper. I've learnt that you can split out a growth ring with a bit of practice if you want to get piggyback staves.
I have tried using a hatchet but i seemed to chew up the wood. What was the problem, i think it may have been too blunt. We should put together a must have list that has no bandsaw or anything.
Josh
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I make a good share of my bows with hand tools only and find just getting familiar with my tools and better with them was the biggest challenge. I have always found while reducing staves with an axe that my forearm gets fatiqued and I need to rest it. Shortening up on the axe seems to help a bit. I also find when reducing logs a good sharp drawknife can't be beat. I switch to a not so sharp knife when I am cleaning up the final ring. Still don't consider myself fast at wood reduction but find it is fast enough to still get the job done in reasonable time. Steve
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i use a very very sharp hatchet to reduce staves, when i get close to bow dimensions i use a macete because its cleaner and less prone to make a big mistake. then i use a draw knife to clean it up and floor tiller, i use the draw knife like a scraper to tiller. i hate rasps because it takes too much work to sand out the marks, i never touch a rasp to a bow unless its the grip which i will be covering with leather. then sand with a block and steel wool. i always use hand tools for my personal bows but when i make some to sell i just cant get them done fast enough to make a dollar and i have found the majority of non bowyer archers dont like to see tool marks..they want them perfect...so i do cheat on the bows i sell, i clean them up with a sander. if someone asks me to build them a bow using just hand tools the price would double and since i need the bow money to fund my meager hunting trips, it becomes a necessity of moving them :-\
but for must have hand tools, sharp, light hatchet, macete, cheap 3rivers draw knife and a sanding block- Ryan
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I can take out rasp marks in a few seconds. I start with a Nicholson #49 rasp , go over the rasp marks with a Nicholson half round course file and follow up with a half pair of scissors for scraping and they are gone. I do have a couple of really aggressive rasps that leave grand canyon like grooves in the wood that would be hard to remove but I seldom use them.
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I use a hatchet to trim the stave down to near bow dimensions. As I get real close, I choke up on the hatchet and chop off less and less. Then I use a rasp, then my pocket knife (to scrape most of the rasp marks off), then 60 grit sandpaper. I tiller with 60 grit sandpaper...then go to finer and finer grits until I get to 120 grit. Then I burnish.
I can make a bow with just my hatchet and pocket knife but I hate the "washboard" marks.....so I seldom use this technique unless I'm experimenting with new wood.
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I use a large knife with a blade shaped like a gukri only a lot strighter with the weight of the blade closer to the point.I'ts lightter than a hatchet so my arms don't get tired so quick.
R.C.
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It makes me feel good to hear that others just use hand tools to make their bows , I used the method in the first post , it work fine , but most of the time I use a machete and then my rasps and hand planes - the way it should be - as close to primitive as possible . ;)
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i use nothing but hand tools a draw knife, a rasp, a sureform or two, several diff types of files for nocks,scrapers,a pocket knife,sandpaper, and a shot glass
for burnishing, heck i've even used it on the bow lol
only power tools i even own for wood working are a skill saw and table saw
tim
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I use a power tool every chance I get, I love ta work a stave down with my drawknife, but sometimes ya just gotta get the job done.
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I like to use a hatchet to reduce the bulk of the wood and then draw knife the sure form.
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I will use a light hatchet and then switch to my sureform and block-plane. It's slow but it makes for very nice straight lines.
Cheers,
Grant
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I've done the saw cut and chop thing, and the axe and drawknife thing, but still prefer to take the width to within 1/16" of my layout line with a bandsaw. Lets me spend more of my time on bowyerin' and less on grunt work. Free time is precious little, so I like to make the most of it that I can.
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But of course a bandsaw is a power tool.
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it doesn't take much time at all to cut just shy of the line with a good sharp pullsaw. Whether bandsaw or handsaw, you still have to clean up after the cut...so it's better sometimes just to use the handsaw, since it poses less risk of cutting too far. I especially like to use handsaw and chisel when working out the arrow shelf: very accurate and very safe against accidents.
I usually use power tools, but for hand tools I use a couple rasps, a straight scraper and a gooseneck scraper, block with various grits of sandpaper, a knife, and a file for string grooves.
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One of the things that helps me is that when I am chasing a ring, I use a small, flexible drawknife that I have to almost entirely finish it. I have gotten pretty fast, if I do say so myself. :)
My tool kit consits of a hachet, two drawknives, a rasp(a new Shinto rasp ;D), a scraper, and the nock file, of course. ;)
Sean
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As Tim taylor says "More Power" ;D
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A band saw is a wonderful thing, but a big ol' hunk of hedge will dull a $20 blade pretty quick. I try and split them down near size first, and use a hatchet to clean up the stave. Then I use a drawknife on the sides so I know I'll have at least 1/2" of thickness along the length. I've seen many people at bowmaking festivals, taking a quarter split and ruining a blade in trying to reduce it on a bandsaw. In fact, a pie-shaped wedge will tip over easily and bend that sawbladem ruining it even before it gets a chance to become dull and/or lose its set.
I've made a few bows with nothing but a hatchet. I like a hatchet with a narrow blade and a single bevel, my favorite is a roofers hatchet with a 3' blade.
Using the hatchet, I've found it works well to chop little cuts along the side of the piece, then cut down to remove chips. When I don't do this, I often wind up pulling giant splinters off the wood as I try and reduce it. Anybody else got tips on using a hatchet to reduce wood to near dimensions?
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Other than using green wood, my only advice on reducing staves with a hatchet it to reduce the tips first and then work toward the handle. Don't reduce the tips too much at first because they will bend or break off as you're chopping the stave. If you reduce the stave starting in the middle, the wood may tear out too much and ruin your stave.....you'll also have to swing much harder, increasing fatigue.
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I usually start cutting sides down maybe a foot from an end, and then back up 6" at a time and work towards that already-worked end.
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I love a draw knife and a sturdy vice for massive wood removal on split staves and for the back...then a farriers rasp, course rasp, fine rasp, scraper, and sand paper for the belly...it depends on what mood I'm in. :D
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I use a sharp heavy knife and a wood hammer to split staves out nearly close to floor tiller, while green. Then coat them in lacquer and let em sit a bit. This method works on elm, sasafrass, black-locusst, erc just to name a few.
When they feel dry enough I begin work with a surform then just sharp scrapers till they are tillered.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/thimosabv/hacker-1.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/thimosabv/hacker-2.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/thimosabv/hacker-3.jpg)
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D Tiller, I too love chisels like you. I have a good 1" mortising chisel, which I keep razor sharp, I used on that last Holmie I did, it was great around the handle and fades for fast, but accurate wood removal. I use a square beech carving mallet for all my chisel work.
Dane
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I need to sharpen my chissel. Seems like it dulls up on me right quick or I just don't know how to sharpen it correctly!
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I have a froe tha I got a local blacksmith to make for me, it works good for reducing splits but I need to make a different handle because I'll sometimes hit it hard enough to whack my hand on the stave. I once saw a froe with a handle that was curved at the end, that is exactly what I need. I think of this every time I bust another knuckle.
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The only real trick I had come up with before I started using a band saw was to draw out the bow on the back, and then use a hand saw to make two angled cuts roughly where the fades of the handle are, down to about where you want your rough belly thickness to start, and then use a hatchet and a hammer (from each end) to split off two or three inches of thickness from the belly wood right up to those saw lines all at once...
dan
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Lennie just make a new froe from a longer piece of metal .This is Bob's froe I used a john deere bush hog blade ,to make the the blade .
(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/froe04.jpg)
Ralph
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Cool looking tool Ralph, I gotta make me one of those. Steve
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I had a 14" bandsaw.....and ended up getting rid of it.....because I didn't use it right.....my screw up were just that....mine. Operator error.
I went over to hand tools. I like to build laminates. Hickory backed, Ipe cored with thin 1/4" thick oak handle lams.....
I have found that the table saw will cut my cores to width.....from there on out it's hand tools.
I use a tennon saw to get it close to my lines....then clean up with a shurform and farriers rasp......yes, it takes longer.....but works for me!
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Ralph nice froe, that handle has nice character. My blade is indeed a bit shorter, but even so if you are trying to split a big piece you have to whack the blade so hard that it is easy for the froe to pivot instead of pushing down into the wood, making the top of the handle hit the stave. Ouch. Of course when a split is that big, I suppose I should be using wedges instead of the froe. It works much better on the smaller pieces, and then you can direct the split by torquing on the handle.
I do have a much bigger froe head, the thing is massive. It'd take a handle larger in diameter than a maul. I think it was a homemade shingle knife. Never have out a handle on it.
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Anyone know where I can pick up a froe? Dont have the tools to make one myself.
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E-Bay, or just Google Froe, or go to Paleoplanet and say yer looking to buy one :)
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I occasionally see them on ebay. You might ask around, maybe someone in your area is an amatuer blacksmith. Or look online. They can make a simple froe from a car leaf spring without much effort.
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here's a few more froe pictures .I didn't carve Bob's handle , Kirby did.
(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/froe02.jpg)
(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/froe03.jpg)
It's a big cat in a tree ,stalkin' a pig.
(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/froe05.jpg)
And this is one I made from a car spring ,I use it a lot.
(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/froe-my.jpg)
(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/froe-my2.jpg)
Ralph
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Like Tom Sawyer I like the flat-sided hatchet except mine is a broadaxe. These really do the trick. I get my bow pretty close with the broadaxe and can chase a ring with one if the rings are not too close.
I reduce my fresh cut staves to near bow dimensions (well, width anyway and leave an extra half to 3/4" on thickness) right away for faster seasoning and to take up less room. On osage I always remove all sapwood. I make chops in the sapwood on the sides of the outer surface so I can watch how deep I'm chopping, then take chops across the middle to match. Then with the broadaxe I can take off about all the sapwood in a hurry to the right depth, till i begin to see color peaking through. Then I get the drawknife.
I never had luck removing sapwood on black locust before seasoning, so i don't anymore. Removing it with the broadaxe is hard work when it's seasoned.
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Anyone ever use a toothing plane? I've never used one but have heard that it works much like a cabinet scraper. Is this true?
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When you have places that a scraper or a drawknife ,will ride over or tear out , (like knots you have reduced on a belly ,or grain dips ) a toothing plane blade is better . Because the toothing plane blade will cut through such places evenly .As long as that's what you want . Then you go back with your scraper and remove the toothing grooves.
Ralph
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I've had one for awhile, just got to use it the other day. It works more like a fine rasp than a cabinet scraper. The blade is at an angle similar to a scraper, it leaves the fine grooves like you get from using a hacksaw blade. You can definitely use it to find your humps and bumps, as the plane body rides over the low spots and the blade only hits the high places. Its a nice tool, if you can get one I'd recommend adding it to your toolbox. Especially if you make laminated bows.