Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: lowell on June 22, 2008, 08:14:53 pm
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The piece of wood was bugging me when it was a stave and I just had to give it a try!! It is still bugging me and I still can't leave it alone!!
Please give any thought on what I should do to get a bow out of it. Or if I should give up!! ;D
It is 59 NTN, osage and is pulling 41 @ 26" I was hoping for 45# to 50# at my 26" draw but would just be happy with a shootable bow now!!
To me I think the left limb is hinging at the fade but the crook next to it throws me off. I have been looking at it too long and need some new ideas.
Thanks all!!
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It done! Nough said. ;D
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Yep, that one spot messes with the eyes a bit...but looks to me you done a great job! Like tiller said...its done! Have fun shootin it.....Brian
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Looks pretty good to me also. I seem to have more trouble with bends like that myself. How many arrows have you shot thru it so far? I like it.
David
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well i think you nalied it, like already said " its done"
dont let it it bug ya,ya done good.
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Looks OK to me... go shoot it. Sometimes you just have to know when enough is enough. Remember... perfection is the enemy of good.
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Look's finished to me.
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Leave it alone....the only thing I can see is that the left limb may be a little stiffer than the Right....o the last 1/3 of the Limb.....but with the Stave you had to work with....this is an Awesome feat....I love it!!!
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Walk away with it and a handfull of arrows and have fun shooting
Dennis
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Looks good. Pay attention to the handle pressure as you shoot it. That left limb does look a bit stiff mid limb on but see how it feels as you shoot it. Jawge
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I agree it looks done, but.... I am just getting into heat treating bellies. From reading I get the impression that heat treating this bow might raise the draw weight a little and make Lowell totally happy. Does anybody have enough experience heat treating osage to comment?
Ron
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Nice bow. Why not throw a little heat into the bow a reflex it making it into a reflex deflex style. reflexing the limbs will add some draw weight. Once again, nice bow
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What Jawge's said,but it should be fine.If you don't want to loose any more weight I would leave it as is. :)
Pappy
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Sometimes you have to stop scraping and call it done. I'd call it done.
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That was a difficult stave, feel good about the job you did and enjoy the bow! ;)
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I wouldn't heat it and add any R/D or anything. Bad idea. You could end up with firewood. Call it done.
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it's hard to say "finished" sometimes, isn't it...but if you scrape at it too much more, you'll end up with a lightweight
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First let me say that I break/ruin a lot of bows because my philosophy is fix it till its broke. ;) I do agree that you could shoot it just as it is. If you are happy with it by all means stop. I do think you have a hinge on the left limb and both limbs need to bend a little more in the midlimb. I think 6 months down the road this bow is going to have quite a bit of set in the fades especially on the left. I personally would get it bending a little more in the midlimb. Then I would probably heat it and reflex it and maybe even pike it a little. I wont guarantee I would have anything but a stick or maybe two left when done. I do think it would teach you a lot while trying to do all this and to me the education is more important than the bow.
Now some guys are going to say this philosophy is flawed because of the price of wood and unavailability of it to some guys and you might not be able to go cut more wood whenever you want. I live in an area with less bow wood than anyone on this site and have to import all of my wood so save that argument for someone else. Justin
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I'd say unique philosophy Justin, except that I more than occasionally find myself doing something similar. Bow wood is not easy for me to come by either, but learning so the next bow may be better is part of the process. Ron
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did you try taking pictures with the bow flipped on the tree ?
I agree with Justin on this one, a little fix and belly tempering and you migth end up with an heavyer bow you got now
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Thanks for the comments all!!
This was an attempt mainly to learn more about bow building. I'm thinking I'll try making the right limb( I had said left but reread this and changed!!) bend just a little more at mid limb, shorten it just a little and add just a little reflex and try to get the shooting weight I like..... like I said this bow was a "learning bow"!! ;)
Best to you all, Lowell
NOMADIC ... I didn't have a picture of it on the tree flipped but may do that... the pictures seem to make me see things I don't see otherwise!!
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I agree with justin and your assessment of the tiller.
This looks like the sister bow to the one I just finished. Almost exact.
I ended up with a lighter bow than I planned as well cause that wiggle in the middle gave me fits as well.
I ended up piking and still was light by the time I thought the tiller was on.
If it is the only bow you got I would do as all others say and just go shoot her.
but......
I agree with what you are seeing regarding the hinge out of the fade on the left.
and stiff in the middle.
Luck getting her where you want it.
N2
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very nice! great tiller job!!
frank
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i aint no expert, but it looks great to me.
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my first impression was that the left limb needed a bit more work, but it doesnt seem to be taking any set in the inner limb. IMHO (which doesnt hold a candle to the other guys that already replied) id heat temper the limbs, take a fiew more scrapes on the left limb, and just event up the two. i had sumwhat the same problem with a hickory that was too weak in the inner limbs. from some good advice from Manny, i treated the inner 8" and retillered. i gained 10lbs and 1.5" of reflex in the process. so i would deffinately put my money on Manny with this one. ;)
Phil
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yeah, i actually just noticed that two. just a little. dont want to make that imaginary hinge a reality. :P
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Leave it alone! Let be! Walk away! It DONE!!!!
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yup. i just looked back again, and if you want to, as he said, "fix it till it's broke" id work on that left limb a little bit more. but be carefull.
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As bad as I didn't want to show what happened I feel obligated to fess up to my mistakes.
Wasn't too confident that this was ever going to be a bow but had a great time working it and learning what I could do and what I should not do!! ;)
I took a little more wood off to try to even the tiller a little and had wieght down to 37#.
I then piked it 1/2" at each end and put just a little reflex in it like I said I was going to. Really liked the unstung profile but after pikeing and reflexing, the handle wasn't in the center soooo.... bent each end over a little and handle was right in the middle.
I shot it a few times and thought it was throwing the arrows nice for the lower wieght bow. I put it on the scales and it was back to 42#. But when on the scales at 42# @ 26 " I heard " The POP"
Thought it was the staright limb but looking closer it was a crack right in the crook that ran length ways for about 2 inches.
It is all over, pictures show more and the hinge at the crack!!
Thanks all for your help even if I don't always do what is suggested. On the wall in my shop is now the words of wisdom I got from this bow/thread..... "Perfection is the enemy of good" and "Fix it to you break it"
Straighter stave picture shows my next attempt!!!! :)
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I am sorry to hear that. :'( When exactly did you heat treat it? You might not have waited long enough for the wood to rehydrate. That is a strange direction to crack. Your next one will be much easier after all you learned here. Good luck, Justin
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Lowell....was that Limb twisting any when it was drawn to full Draw??? This looks like a Radial Crack...and could have been caused from it twisting sideways there in that S-Curve in the Limb
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Lowell....was that Limb twisting any when it was drawn to full Draw??? This looks like a Radial Crack...and could have been caused from it twisting sideways there in that S-Curve in the Limb
I think it had to be twisting when drawn but don't think I had anything I could do about the twist.. It made a real odd twist at the crook but like I said I just couldn't leave it alone!! The nocks seemed on the same plain when at full draw but there was a lot of pressure put on the area of the crook.
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Here's another learning experiance. I don't think it's finished yet with that kind of crack. Heat it lightly and feather super- glue into the crack. Put it away for about a week, let it hydrate and check and fine tune the tiller. That crack is not running off the bow.
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After you get it superglued and finished, you can wrap the area for a little extra insurance. Some sinew or silk thread will work great. Justin
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lowell, I hope you don't mind but here are some comments.. First, you laid the last bow out without following the vertical grain. That is the major reason why the bow cracked. The first thing I do is draw a line down the center of the limbs FOLLOWING (not yelling. caps for emphasis. LOL) that vertical grain. Look closely at the stave. You'll see that grain and it runs nock to nock. In that last picture you laid the stave out going to the right side. You missed the crown or the vertical grain. Second, resist the temptation to pike a character stave. The limbs are under more stress than in a straight staved bow. Piking increases the stress obviously because you've shortened the limbs. I would have gone LONGER than usual with both stave by an inch or 2. Third, any heating done on a character stave SHOULD be corrective in nature. The limbs are already under stress; reflexing and recurving compounds that stress. Belly tempering to raise weight is out of the question. Same reason. Fourth, forgot what I was going to say. Oh ya. :) Even though you had a dip in one of those limbs that area still has to do its share of the work. It's gotta bend in an arc. With your eyes try to draw a best fit curve through that limb. Fifth, look at the tiller from both sides. Often a little adjusting is needed. Sixth, forget about getting that picture perfect tiller that you see on lam bows. It ain't happening (bad grammar for emphasis) on a character stave. Rather pay attention to how the stave feels as you shoot it. Note the handle pressure as you draw and let down. Note it as you shoot. Is it even or is one limb tipping? I've always maintained that if you learn from a mistake your effort is not wasted. You've got a great attitude. Keep it up. Here's an applicable buildalong. :) Jawge
http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/seneca.html
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George, I appreciate all comments!!
Not sure what you ment by not following the vertical grain. Do you mean the last picture of the stave I have a pattern laid out for my next bow?. I thought I was following the grain as to how the stave split??
I looked at my center line and thought I had the line following how the grain ran.
I looked at the picture again. Do mean the center of nock at the close end of the picture should be centered in the middle of the width of the stave??
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Let me take another look. Jawge
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lowell, get the stave and look at it. You'll see grain lines running nock to nock. You went to my right with your lay out. You should have gone to my left. I can see the lines in the picture quite clearly. This is very important. You laid the stave out so the nocks line up but you can't safely do that. Please stick with this until you understand. :) Jawge
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The question will be what to do when nocks don't line up. There are a few options not involving heat. But I hope you stick with this vertical grain/crown layout until you understand. Going to bed now. Jawge
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Yep, what George said,...trying to make a straiter bow by forgoing the crown will eventually lead to a failure.
......the other bow is by no means finished !....for now ;D ..still some options, like previously mentioned by a few.
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Sorry to see the result, but I'm glad you started this thread. I learned something hearing everybody's opinions. Hopefully you had fun too!
Ron
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By Jawge... I think I'm getting it now!! Will take a good long look at it again.
I guess what is throwing me off is.... I thought if I followed the natural split of the wood, I was also folllowing the vertical grain. And seems like almost all the osage I get has some twist to them too which makes following the crown more confusing!!
Thanks for making me think more... which will lead to better bows!! :)
Lowell
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That is correct, Lowell; split staves follow the vertical grain. But you didn't follow the split. Had you drawn your center line down the middle of the stave (crown) you would have been good to go. Rather than driving down the middle of the road you decided to swerve to the left (coming from the center, handle area) possibly to avoid a squirrel. As I think you are beginning to realize band sawed staves give no roadmap clues. That's not bad as long as you can read that grain. So it's imperative that you stick with this until you understand. It's too bad we can't use our GPS's to read wood grain. LOL. :) Jawge
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Thanks George!!!!... the more you explain the more I understand it!!!!... and you are good at getting it through my thick skull!!8)
The center line or crown is in the middle of the split edges on either side of the stave,..... no matter what the width of the stave is at any given spot.
Correct??
Then for the handle to be in line with the tips I either have to be fussy about the stave I use or do some bending later to get things to line up!!
Please tell me I'm getting warm!!! :D
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By Jawge.,I think you've got it, Lowell! You may have to heat and bend to get the string on the handle. But alas there is a way or 2 to try before you resort to heat correcting. Draw that center line down the stave following the vertical grain or crown. No swerving. Watch out for those squirrels. Measure 1/2 of what you want on either side of the line. If you want 1.5 wide measure 3/4 of an inch on either side. I do that in several places and then connect the lines. Reduce the stave. I don't know if you want to make a pyramid bow or leave it full width until just past mid limb. That's up to you. I often go with the full length Meare Heath style initially and begin to narrow to bring the tiller home. Anyway, leave the handle full width and the nock area an inch wide until you string the bow for the first time. I can describe why if you or someone else is interested. Right now it's nap time. All this advisin' is makin' me a might tuckered. :) Jawge
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Look closely at the stave and see if you can see those lines. Up and down. Nock to nock. Jawge
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Wake up Jawge. ;) I'm curious to see if your advice is what I'm thinking. Dang, see if I've payed attention in your classe's over the years. ;D
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OH did someone say wake up. Oh it was just Eddie, I am going back to sleep. I always do like Jawge says. Take a sharpie and follow the grain from one end to the other. If you do this and you get to close to the side before you get to the other end you go back and start over moving 1/2" to the side to start your line, following the new grain line to the other end.
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I Tolt ya it done! Nows look'it! ;D
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mullett, I heard ya. I'm up now. :) Jawge