Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: radius on June 19, 2008, 12:37:32 am

Title: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 19, 2008, 12:37:32 am
Well, Mullet's been after me to do a buildalong, so here it is. 

I recently started work at a door/window shop, where we mainly use vertical grain douglas fir but also from time to time use hardwoods.  The other day while stocking up some shelves, i saw a dirty old piece of wood with the words Grey Elm written on it.  It was 4 feet long, 1.5" by 7.5", with a serious bow near one end.  I asked the boss and he was kind enough to give it to me.  So I ran to the table saw, cut it into four chunks 1.75" wide, and then to the bandsaw to resaw these into "billets" 4 feet long, 11/16" thick, by 1.75" wide.

Today I cut out the z-splices using John Strunk's method from TBB1:  stack the billets so that backs are both facing up, tape them together, draw the outline on the top one, and cut with the bandsaw on the lines.  I only used 3 pairs, even though I had 4...one of the pieces didn't turn out so good (bandsaw accident).  Here's what they look like.


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture001.jpg)

Here are a couple set together in prep for glueup.  You can see there's a good-sized gap at the center.  To make up for the gap, I used a rasp to generate some shavings which i later mixed with the epoxy to bond the pieces together.  The other two sets of billets lined up pretty good.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture002.jpg)


Here is a set of taped-together billets resting on a table.  The back is up, showing what kind of reflex these bows will have when the staves are glued together.


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture006.jpg)

Now, as for the joints.  The outside cut on the z-splice was easy to true:  after cutting it on the bandsaw, I laid the outside cut on the beltsander for 2 seconds:  voila!  Perfectly smooth.  The centerline cut was also easy:  just used a fence on the bandsaw.  But for the inside angled cut, I had to use a different method to clean up the lines.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture007.jpg)

Here is the epoxy I used, and a little cup with elm shavings that I used to buff up the epoxy on the one pair of billets that was too gappy.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture008.jpg)

HEre is that pair glued up and clamped.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture009.jpg)

And finally (for today) since food seems to be so important to everyone here, here's a shot of what I ate for supper tonight.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture005.jpg)




PLANS FOR THESE STAVES

These staves are quite long, 68" I think, and as I said, 1.75" wide.  According to Paul Comstock, that should be good for 60 # of pull.   The reflex is not severe, only moderate, which should make tillering fairly easy.  I think I'm going to floor tiller each one, and then apply 1/8" of hickory backing over them.  I just want something continuous spanning the bow along the back to protect the splice.  I have only spliced one bow before, a (very) short HBO, so I guess I'm a bit shy about letting the splice do all the work without a brace. 

I will make at least one holmegaard out of these...maybe 2...out of all the bows I've made, I think my HBO holmegaard is my favourite...

One of the bows I plan to give to my boss, who gave me the wood, as a thank you present.   Maybe he will hang it in the shop...who know?  Maybe he will shoot it. 

Just as long as he doesn't shoot ME with it! ;D
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 19, 2008, 01:16:30 am
It's a chilly evening, so the epoxy hasn't set up yet, an hour and a half later.  I went outside to check on the billets, and sure enough, one of them had come apart.   Wrapped it with inner tube...worked much better than the c-clamps.  I see now (shoulda known) why people use PVA for splicing sometimes:  3 magic words:  High Initial Tack.
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 19, 2008, 11:44:38 am
couple more things:

I brought the billets inside last night after wrapping that one with inner tube.  Something' s up with this g2 epoxy.  The first batch I bought stunk like crazy, but this batch is just fine.  Maybe they changed the formula a bit.  Maybe I got used to it.  Or maybe it gets old and starts to stink after awhile.

Also:  Originally the billets were 49" long.  I was able to select the best 3' out of each one, and use that for the billets.  I have a few foot-long chunks that I can use later as risers and stuff. 

Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 19, 2008, 06:11:22 pm
There is a huge gap in your splice.  If you would sand or cut the inner points would let you get a much better fit.  With that fat of glue lines you are asking for a failure.  Justin
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 19, 2008, 10:12:11 pm
it'll be okay...these are going to be stiff handled bows, glued with mega-epoxy, and backed the whole length with one solid strip of hickory.

I definitely had some trouble though.  The outer parts of the splice glued up easy:  tight fit, strong bond...but the inner (gappy) portion bled out.  Partly the gap.  Partly my half-assed "shop". 

Anyway, today I bought a hickory 1x6, and tomorrow i will cut it and sand it into 3/16 parallel strips...it is 1" thick, so I should be able to get about 8 pieces out of it.  Maybe I should make the backing 1/8, so I can get 10 or 12...
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: akila on June 22, 2008, 01:41:47 pm
I wass just aboute to ask you iff you leave that bilets like that and try to make a bow out of themm, becose the grain has some seriose run ups, so its a god thing that you will back it with something,,,..aniway good luck with this one... ;)
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 23, 2008, 12:13:08 am
I must be doing something wrong, because i keep making bows with the grain all over the place, and most of them come out just fine???
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 23, 2008, 01:59:23 am
okay, today i epoxied the hickory backing strips on 2 of the 3, after scraping the gunk off the back of the handles and giving a little love to the back of the staves in general.  They all have  ~2 inches of glued-in reflex.  I can't take pictures for you until i get some new batteries:  the damn thing just quit on me today!  But I feel good about this project...
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 26, 2008, 01:09:45 am
Progress...of sorts...

After the epoxy cured, i drew the outline of a holmegaard on the back of the 2 staves. 

4 inch handles
2 inch fades
parallel limbs (the bending portion of the limbs:  18 inches each)
outer limbs taper from 3/4" to 1/2"

Then yesterday morning, i tossed those in the back of the truck and went to work early.  I cut them out on the big bandsaw there, and used the belt sander to smooth the edges to make it easy to draw the side profile.  Then, i was surprised to discover we were having a beer day after work and a barbecue, so i stayed a couple hours late and drank beer in the sun. 

When i got home, i laid out the side profiles.

Do you see where this is going? :-\

My lines were good, and this morning when i cut them out i wound up with 2 well shaped bows, looking like primo holmie material...except the inner limbs were too thin.  Including the hickory backing strip, the bending parallel sections were about 7/16".  I took a look at my hickory/osage holmegaard, added a little, and went for it.  But elm is not osage.  The bows were too lightweight for my liking.  I cut the pin nocks at home tonight after work, made a string, and found each stave has a stiff limb and a limb slightly hinged about 6" beyond the fades. 

Solutions:

1.  Go with it, and give the lightweights to some lady hunters.
2.  Add a belly lam.
3.  Add another backing strip.

Having a glue line, I could not heat treat the belly, so I opted for #3.  But rather than just simply gluing another strip of hickory onto the staves as they were, to tiller later, I scraped the bellies (not the hinge!) until I achieved some smooth bending.  Then I epoxied the backing strips on and fastened them into Perry Reflex.  Here are your photos.

The end profile:

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture010.jpg)

The glueline (what glueline!?)

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture012.jpg)
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture014.jpg)

The two staves side by side.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture013.jpg)

My pee-poor splice job...better luck next time...I should be okay provided i feel no bend in the handle...I may run a couple trenails through the handle later on....
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture017.jpg)

A shot of the two glued-up staves in perry reflex
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture019.jpg)

With pretillering, all you need is a block under the dead center of the handle, and the staves curve neatly down to the tips, even when bent backward!

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture023.jpg)

Excess epoxy showing between the "core" and the new backing strip.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture022.jpg)

Tip fastened to form with rubber band.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture024.jpg)

There you go, drunk layout fixed...more to come.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture019.jpg)

Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 28, 2008, 07:20:02 pm
Well, screwed up again!  Not drinking this time, either...just somehow failed to clamp one tip with enough pressure. 

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture026.jpg)

Here is the same limb ...same side...just shifted the camera over 4 inches or so.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture027.jpg)

As you can see, there is a huge blunder which eats up 4 inches of the tip...so I cut both tips four inches and re-cut and shaped the nocks.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture030.jpg)


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture035.jpg)


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture036.jpg)


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture037.jpg)


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture038.jpg)

I like to use the pullsaw first for many things, but i used my block plane alot in trimming off the excess hickory from the sides of the new backings.  Here's what they looked like when the rubber tires came off.


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture028.jpg)

Here's the one with the full-length limb, after cleaning up the excess.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture033.jpg)

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture034.jpg)

not too bad.

Here is the shortened one ... i may end up extending this tip (which means reducing the length of the bending portion of the inner limb)...but for now it looks like this.


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture039.jpg)

The two together from each end.  You can see by the dark spots of heartwood that these bows were cut from the same boards.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture040.jpg)

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture041.jpg)


Ok and here is a shot of the shortened bow's reflex.  Pretty good.

(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/radius-01/Spliced%20Elm/Picture042.jpg)

PARTICULARS:


The shortened bow is the wider bow.  It is now very stout, but still light.  I look forward to reading about Mass in the TBB4.  Elm is very light.  The osage holmegaard i made draws 45 # approximately, it is 1.5 inches wide, and the bending limbs are maybe 3/8 " thick including the hickory backing.  This Elm was 1 3/4" wide, 1/2" thick including the backing, and drew very little at all.  Now, with the additional backing and glueline and reflex, they finally have decent strength potential. 

i don't know about the elm, though:  i sharpened my scraper big time, and still only get dust and shavings from the belly....


Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on June 29, 2008, 08:30:43 pm
long one broke
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: mullet on July 02, 2008, 10:23:55 pm
  Well find that same kid on steroids and tell him he's got another bow. 8)
Title: Re: Elm reflexed bows...spliced in the handle.
Post by: radius on July 02, 2008, 11:12:10 pm
i may just have to do that! :P

too much going on to work on bows right now...but judging by the quiet in this thread, nobody's gonna mind...