Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on February 19, 2026, 05:34:14 pm
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Should have taken a pic of this stave roughed out. Some straightening required. I don’t mind the snake but that with a pretty good propeller kinda sucks. There is better Osage out there. I’ve had this stave for about 8 years. I guess if I’m going to make a bow out of it I might as well get it done.
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Getting closer..
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Looking good Arvin. One of the guys in our local group has always told me that "prop twist makes a faster bow". I have seen threads arguing the point for years... and I don't know. He said it was what Jim Hamm taught him. Looking forward to seeing it. :OK
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I don’t know about that Bob, but could that be because of needing extra heat to straighten the out?
I’ve had more experience with crooked and twisted staves because that’s the majority of what I’ve had to work with. But other than the extra time involved I can’t say there any slower than bows I’ve made out of straight staves.
I will be curious to get Arvins thoughts after he turns out the finished bow. If anybody can get the optimal performance out of 1 I believe Arvin can.
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I disagree with Jim GOD bless his soul. If the wiggles and humps can cause any shock it slows the bow down. Not saying it won’t shoot pretty good just not as fast but they are interesting to look at and a challenge to build. Well the internet has come to a crawl on PA again! Maybe to many adds to load fast.
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Any limb twist in a bow causes a torsional load to be applied when drawn. That laod takes up some of the energy you put into the bow but adds nothing to the draw length, so its parasitic. Releasing the string the bow twists back to its normal profile but none of that energy release goes into the arrow. It wont make an arrow faster and it reduces the efficiency of the bow.
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Any limb twist in a bow causes a torsional load to be applied when drawn. That laod takes up some of the energy you put into the bow but adds nothing to the draw length, so its parasitic. Releasing the string the bow twists back to its normal profile but none of that energy release goes into the arrow. It wont make an arrow faster and it reduces the efficiency of the bow.
I think that's true, but I think his thoughts were that energy was created when it snapped back to its original shape. My friend doesn't even try to remove the prop twist with heat... he likes it. :) Wiggles are more mass and not good for efficiency for sure.
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Looks like a decent cook for corrections Arvin. I’m sure you’ll straighten it out in no time.
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Can't beat a clean straight stave. But good and beautiful bows can be made from sub par wood. Some of the most beautiful bows in my memory came from pieces of wood that look like they'd be horrible to work with.
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For me it has always been wood density what determines how a bow performs and osage density varies a lot. We all have had that one tree that made bows that were head and shoulder above any other wood we have used.
This is a billet bow was was made from very twisted but hard as rock osage with tiny early wood rings. It took at least a dozen heat correction sessions to tame it but it was a super performer as bow. I put two billets of this wood back for to make my personal bow out of but old age got the best of me and my bow making journey fell by the wayside.
The bow was just getting it's skins in the picture. Another strange thing about this bow, I made it as a 65# bow for the buyer, the billets had been in my shop for years, I have a pinless moisture meter that is spot on all the time, the wood was bone dry.
The owner called me about 6 months after he got the bow and said the bow felt more like 70# than 65#, I checked it and he was right, I dropped the poundage to 62# for him. The owner stopped at a public archery range on his way home from work, and put 100 arrows 4 or 5 times a week through the bow so it was well broken in.
Through the years the owners health declined and he had me drop the poundage several times, first to 57# then to 52# and finally to 47#. The bow never developed ANY string follow and continued to be a performer. I am still scratching my head about this spectacular wood. In 26 years of bow making I had one other bow gain poundage after it was finished and shot in, I suspect it is from relieving stress from the wood with a heat gun and having the stress come on its own later.
I have straightened the heck out of some hickory staves with heat only to come back to them later and find that they went back to their pre straightened crooked condition several days later. I have one hickory stave that I have straightened at least 6 times and it always goes back.
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Eric I agree all Osage is not equal! Dense Osage is better bow wood. Having less early wood will make Osage more dense . I to had a bow that took no set and broke flight records. It blew doing a stretch test to see how much the wood would stretch in the draw process. Clamping metal strap material to the back of the bow letting one end move as drawn. The strap moved about the thickness of the limb. Assuming the bow took no set I feel compression and tension must have been close to the same. Now I think that the distance that happened in stretch should be divided half in compression and half in tension because there was no set. I only say that because I’ve been told that Osage is pretty even in compression and tension. Eric you have built bows longer than me and probably more so I respect your opinion. But any time we have to remove crooks and bends and we can’t get it all out I think it affects the performance. Both in shock and speed. Can they be beautiful bows of course. Now some of you guys are probably better bowyers than me and can tiller a bow with character Better leaving the mass exactly even in both limbs. Leaving virtually no shock . My hat is off to guys that can achieve that! I can’t see limb twist being a advantage to power stroke in a limb. Jim admitted to having extra mass on the outer limbs not helping in speed after building the slowest bow in the world. I think that was done at mojam. Long before my time. Maybe a bit off subject but hopefully interesting!
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Eric I agree all Osage is not equal! Dense Osage is better bow wood. Having less early wood will make Osage more dense . I to had a bow that took no set and broke flight records. It blew doing a stretch test to see how much the wood would stretch in the draw process. Clamping metal strap material to the back of the bow letting one end move as drawn. The strap moved about the thickness of the limb. Assuming the bow took no set I feel compression and tension must have been close to the same. Now I think that the distance that happened in stretch should be divided half in compression and half in tension because there was no set. I only say that because I’ve been told that Osage is pretty even in compression and tension. Eric you have built bows longer than me and probably more so I respect your opinion. But any time we have to remove crooks and bends and we can’t get it all out I think it affects the performance. Both in shock and speed. Can they be beautiful bows of course. Now some of you guys are probably better bowyers than me and can tiller a bow with character Better leaving the mass exactly even in both limbs. Leaving virtually no shock . My hat is off to guys that can achieve that! I can’t see limb twist being a advantage to power stroke in a limb. Jim admitted to having extra mass on the outer limbs not helping in speed after building the slowest bow in the world. I think that was done at mojam. Long before my time. Maybe a bit off subject but hopefully interesting!
+1
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Getting closer.
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One more
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Looks like you are winning Arvin. I agree that all Osage isn’t the same. Some just holds it profile better than others. Can handle overstressed designs better and performs better.
I think one thing that helps get the most out of snaky staves is to get what I call undependable wood removed. Reduce to grain that follows the snake. Then get everything bending. Even the snake. At least that’s how I approach them. Not saying they will perform as good or better than a nice straight grain dense wood bow, but I think it helps make them smoother and lessens shock.
Bjrogg
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Stave looks great!
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Looking good Arvin, I love snaky/humpy stave's, prop twist not so much, :) I agree that they probable don't preform overall as well as a good clean stave but well enough fr my needs, probable not so much for what you are looking for. We all do this stuff for different reasons and although I am not really into speed I do enjoy watching and listening to you guys chasing it. ;)
Pappy
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There is something about twist in a stave that I just can't tolerate, for me is as much about how a finished bow looks, I have to take any twist out of a stave before I make a bow out of it. The ones I hate the most are stave that have two or more twists going in opposite directions in one limb. I will usually cut the stave in half and glue up the splice to take most of one twist out and attack the second one with a heat gun. I lessen the twist on billet bows by the way I glue them up as well.
My twist remover, put lead in the bucket.
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🤠🤠🤠ya it’s always serious when we get the pipe wrench and five gallon bucket out!
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That last photo looks a lot like many of the staves I’ve had to work with in the past. Definitely a bit more of a challenge. I’m with Pappy, we’re all in it for different reasons. I enjoy the process of seeing what I can create out of a certain piece of wood, and turn into a durable,shootable, dependable bow.
I also enjoy reading and learning from you guys that are chasing speed and distance. It has taught me a lot.
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I prefer my big monkey wrench. :)
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Ok 43@28 not much shock . Shot 20-30 arrows and it shoots good..now just pretty her up .
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Looks quite nice Arvin and well behaved in the end.
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That looks like it turned out great, and I’m sure the full draw is just as nice. It may not be a flight bow, but I bet it will be a great target bow, and kill a deer in the right hands.
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Gee whiz Arvin, you really nock these out fast.
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Most all Osage I have worked with bent easily using dry or wet heat but I have run across some that did not want to bend using heat. I wonder if anyone else has run across Osage that resists heat bending?
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Yes Mark I have some that just fights you all the way. And others that just go right where you want it. This one was on the bench off and on for about 6-8 hrs total. But the bow turned out to be a shooter.
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In my limited experience compared to most of you guys, I have definitely seen a difference in how some Osage bends, and holds its bend much easier than others. I have only used dry heat, because it is much more convenient for me, and has worked so far.
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All finished up. Turned out to be Good shooter. Thanks for looking.
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Pics
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You made short work of that one arvin. Nice and tidy too.