Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jameswoodmot on January 05, 2026, 05:06:42 pm
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I’m in the U.K., Black locust is pretty rare. My parent live in France and I remember seeing a lot of it around. I asked my dad if he could keep he’s eye out for a piece, to which he told me he had just bought a dozen 7ft Locust fence posts! He brought me a couple last month.
I’ve never come across a wood that people have such polarised opinions about how it should be treated. Some say wide and thin or it will fret and others say narrow and thick or it will fret! I’m used to wide and thin so I’ll start there.
It had most of the sapwood sawn off, some checks in one end and a point on the other. The outer growth rings were about half the thickness of the deeper ones so I took about 5 rings of heart wood off. I’ve got three rings at the tips and two in the mid limb, about 5-6mm thick each (just under 1/4”). Tough stuff but chasing the early growth was very nice.
I made the mistake of leaving it on the radiator over night after roughing it out. It had more moisture in it than I though and it split pretty bad, luckily I had left plenty of spare material on and all the splits were in trim-able areas apart from a tiny bit in the riser that I’m not worried about.
I flipped the tips and took out the twist and deflex with dry heat, took ages! I’m really not much a fan of dry heat, next time I’ll use steam and set it with dry heat after. At least then I can do something useful when it’s heating instead of sitting there waving a heat gun around. Also, I can never be confident I’ve got it hot all the way through, my fear is that the belly will have taken the bend but not the back, and then as the belly is thinned the bend will pull out. Not a problem with steam.
Anyway. It’s 66” straight line tip to tip and 2” at the widest point.anything between 40 and 50lbs at 26” will be great. Last 5-6” will be static or close to.
Any input will be much appreciated!
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It’s not quite a pyramid shape but not far off. It’s a bit Eiffel Tower ish from the outer third and almost parallel on the inner half. Started with 3” of reflex, lost 1/2” getting it to brace height. Not surprised at that, I usually lose a bit early on when the wood seems to “settle”. I really don’t want to loose much more though.
A bit of a pig to get it to brace but it’s there now. Going to make sure it’s dry before I continue
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Looking really good so far.
locust and osage are some of the worst timbers for checking if you have the back unsealed, and there is still plenty of moisture inside.
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Looking really good so far.
locust and osage are some of the worst timbers for checking if you have the back unsealed, and there is still plenty of moisture inside.
Interestingly the checks were on the end grain of the handle and limbs as you’d expect but the rest we on the sides along one growth ring which was the “spare” growth ring on the belly. I was able to cut down to the next bit of early growth and get it all out. There were a few across the belly too but the back is clear. I was very lucky, serves me right for rushing drying it! (I’ll learn one of these days, just not this one)
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Ya so far so good. It looks quite light in color for the bl I’ve seen here from folks. I’ve not had to opportunity to work any bl. I’ll have to try and get some one of these days.
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Had the suspicion that it had some more moisture to loose even after the radiator and heat gun treatment. Been on the radiator again since yesterday evening and it’s dropped 5% of its weight. 736g to 6.98?
How does BL do with moisture in general? I assume not as good as Osage but better than white woods?
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Looking real nice so far.
I never had a problem with a finished locust bow gaining set or losing noticeable cast from taking on moisture under normal circumstances. It does better than hickory, I can say that but I’ve not worked enough Osage to comment on that part.
I would recommend sealing the back, if not done already, with some shellac Being that it’s still green and you’re hurrying the drying. I have had drying checks run off the sides air drying when left like that.
Mike
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It had most of the sapwood sawn off, some checks in one end and a point on the other.
It seems to me that you have an all sapwood stave.
All the black locusts I've seen had dark heartwood and very pale sapwood with a clear separation.
I've made 2 bows all sapwood with a very tiny strip of heartwood (fading to none at tips) that shoot well.
Probably a full sapwood bow would work well too
Nice bow outline you got there. :OK
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It had most of the sapwood sawn off, some checks in one end and a point on the other.
It seems to me that you have an all sapwood stave.
All the black locusts I've seen had dark heartwood and very pale sapwood with a clear separation.
I've made 2 bows all sapwood with a very tiny strip of heartwood (fading to none at tips) that shoot well.
Probably a full sapwood bow would work well too
Nice bow outline you got there. :OK
Nah it’s all good, just pale heart wood I think, here’s a picture of the other stave I’ve got
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It lost about 6% of its weight on the radiators (it
Was already seasoned, just atmospheric moisture) and lost a gram over night so I called it good.
Put it back on the long string for a bit to drop the weight down as it was already taking set
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A bit further down the road of going back and fourth I definitely found this one tricky to tiller. I think I didn’t give enough heat when taking the twists out of the limbs and some of its crept back in.
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I ended up under weight as usual but I don’t think I could get much more from this piece of wood, it’s taken about 2” of set. I’m pretty sure it started at 3 1/2” and is now at about 1 1/2” of reflex.
38lbs at 26”
I glued on some temporary tip overlays so I could shoot it without he inappropriate string popping off. Shot like an absolute dog I have to take that spare weight out of the tips.
I’ve got no idea how narrow I can take the tips with this stuff and they’re slightly thinner than I had hoped. It’s not a heavy bow so I think I can still take some more width off them.
After some handle sculpting and tip narrowing it’s not too bad. Amazing what tip weight will do to a bow.
Hopefully you can see in that last photo the little bit of a wobble in the limb inside the flip, caused me some confusion that did!
I’ll get a full draw photo in a bit. Let me know where I could improve on my tiller!
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When you say the bow is a dog? How heavy are the arrows you are shooting? Once you get the profile narrowed down pretty good any further gains you get from additional narrowing will be small. If you measure the backset immediately after unstringing and then check it again 10 min later how much does it move back?
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Badger - it’s just ok massive in the tips at the moment, wants to beak my wrist and the arrows I had are on the light side for the bow. I left them real big but even after I took them down they were still large. I had a second go but I’ve got to get the proper tips on before I can shoot it again.
Probably comes back about half inch after ten minutes and then another half inch after an hour.
I reckon I’ve taken another 100 grains off each tip so we’ll see how that feels in a bit. I’m not worried about it really, just being hesitant with getting the weight off the outlets because I’ve had enough tips pull straight because I’ve over done it
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Ok so, tips skimmed down and nocks on. I had it in my head that I was making a 45ish lb bow, I haven’t made one in that weight range before, they’ve all been heavier or lighter so I was erring on the safe side. Once I remembered it was 38lb I had reference for how much I could slim them down.
I went to meet Del the Cat a little while ago, he has a particular way of doing his tips and tip overlays that’s about the most elegant I’ve seen. I didn’t quite get it right but not too far off. No dropping this one tip down on a hard floor!
Just been shooting it and it’s pretty nice now. Shoots a 316 grain arrow I’m guessing well into the 160’s. I’m not very experienced at guessing speeds but I know it’s a lot faster than the others I’ve been shooting recently. Quite a bit of vibration in it and it’s loud but I think that’s a result of the hard wood and wide limbs?
The sting on it is fast flight but for an 80lb bow, it’s definitely not helping the bow but it’ll be interesting to see what a more appropriate string is like.
I’ve just unbraced it after half a dozen arrows and 20 ish minutes braced and it’s straight back to an inch of reflex and moving whilst I measure it. Will measure again in 10 mins
Edit; 1 1/4” after 10 mins and 1 1/2” after half hour
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Grip is on ready to dry.
Been shooting it a bit today. I’m pretty pleased. 171 with 8.5gpp which was a horrible experience on my fingers and 152 with 10.6gpp. I’ve got nothing on Selfbowman’s new bow but I’ve been wanting to make myself target bow for a while. I have confidence in this bow which is nice.
Here’s a video of it on the tiller, I’d really love to know if you think I could improve the bend. I tried to keep the bend more on the inner limb where it is wider and to not get a hinge inside the flips but I’m not sure if there is too much bend on the inners and maybe I should have been a bit braver in getting the outers to bend?
https://youtube.com/shorts/RNZXojXHQEQ?si=e04FYcLQwQqlTk4e
I would have liked a bit more draw weight from it but it was starting to show some set. Is 37lb from this much BL typical? It feels like a lot of bow for being relatively light in draw weight.
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Nice bow, the tiller looks pretty good to me, if anything look like a little flat spot a few inches out on the right limb not quite to mid limb.probably wouldn’t have mentioned it if you hadn’t ask. 😊Pappy
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Thanks Pappy!
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Got myself a new bow!
Interesting to see how the tiller changes in the hand instead of on the tree, I think this one’s done now, something to timber for next time!
Finished with cocobolo tip overlays. Bark tanned road kill squirrel skin grip and rabbit fur string silencer. Just one coat of tru oil so far.
Does BL darken in time like Osage?
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Oh my goodness. Somehow when the bow comes off the tree and into the hand, it goes from looking like a mechanical thing to a piece of living art. You did an absolutely fine job on this bow. Thats they type of bow that will get the creative juices flowing and make a fella wanna make some shavings.
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If Del made comments for you on this bow listen and learn he’s one of the best around. Nice bow enjoy shooting it.
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Beautiful work! Really came out nice.
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I think 37# is a good weight for your dimensions. I used to make BL 2-1/2" wide at he fades to get 40-42# (straight taper pyramid).
Very nice looking bow.
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very nice looking bow there. bend looks good and it looks very well made and finished.
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Nice work, I really like the grip, very stylish.
Del
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Thank you all! Really appreciate the kind words and answering my questions
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Very classy work all around. Wish i could put out work like that that quick.
Bl is not going to darken like osage, it might get a shade or 2 darker over time but no more.
Mike
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Beautiful bow, turned out great in all aspects. :)
Pappy
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I like it. The build pictures reminded me of Arvins black locust build but your leather grip really set it apart. A nice leather grip just seems to go well with a longbow. Congrats and thanks for sharing. :OK
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Wow, really nice bow!
Especially like how your handle section turned out!
And nice pics, too!!
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Very nice bow
I'm also +1 on the nice grip
:OK
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Yes very nicely done indeed. The bend looks great and doesn’t appear to have taken much set. Well done.
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Thanks again everyone, i appriciate the feedback
Bob, thats because i saw how successfull his bow was and coppied the shape!
With regards to the handle section, credit where credit is due, the shape is very much inspired (copied as close as i can) to Leonwood's bows. So i can comfortable say its a damn nice shape as its not of my invention!
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James, I'd say most of what we get to see here is not the person's invention but execution!
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Nice one :)
If you happen to have some more black locust to play around with, my fastest ones out of this species have strong trapping (narrower back than belly, so the limb is trapezoid shape-ish) and strong heat treatment on the belly. I usually hang some weight on the end of the limb to give it some reflex while tempering and use a wet towel to make sure the back doesn't get to hot, takes some time to get the heat deep enough into the belly. Makes ridiculous fast bows in my experience.
Basically, it hardens your belly enough to the point where it can make the back do all the work, and Black locust is phenomenal on tension. I like to leave the last sap ring on (given its been dried properly, black locust sap is pretty much an indestructible backing), makes for a very nice play of colours :)
All of this has been done with German grown BL from an area with great soil and phenomenal water balance properties, so as always, take with a grain of salt ;)
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Very nicely done. That is one great looking bow. As others have said, I really like the handle.
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Nice one :)
If you happen to have some more black locust to play around with, my fastest ones out of this species have strong trapping (narrower back than belly, so the limb is trapezoid shape-ish) and strong heat treatment on the belly. I usually hang some weight on the end of the limb to give it some reflex while tempering and use a wet towel to make sure the back doesn't get to hot, takes some time to get the heat deep enough into the belly. Makes ridiculous fast bows in my experience.
Basically, it hardens your belly enough to the point where it can make the back do all the work, and Black locust is phenomenal on tension. I like to leave the last sap ring on (given its been dried properly, black locust sap is pretty much an indestructible backing), makes for a very nice play of colours :)
All of this has been done with German grown BL from an area with great soil and phenomenal water balance properties, so as always, take with a grain of salt ;)
I have had other bowyers tell me that with proper treatment (as you described) black locust exceeds osage in performance. I have avoided it like the plague because of the terrible (and well earned) reputation for being intolerant of less than perfect tillering. Trapping so that you have less back and more belly, plus a heat treatment is a great way to mitigate the compression problems.
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Sorry for the little OT, but yes, that's my thinking behind it. You do the combo of trapping + heat treat to enable the belly to withstand the pressure of the back. That's why BL is so sensitive to a bad tiller, it's so strong on tension that the back easily crushes the belly. Its also very tolerant on tension/ can be stretched quite far, you just need some tricks to make it do that 8)
Can confirm from my experience that BL performs just as good as Osage if not slightly better in the 50-70# range with the described treatment/ design :)
Enough of the thread hijacking though ;D Took me like 50 black locust bows to figure all that out, so given this here was the first go I see a bright future ahead ;)
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Nice bow. Thanks for sharing
Bjrogg