Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ruddy Darter on April 09, 2024, 09:26:17 am
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Hello all,
I'm having a go at a English longbow with an Osage stave I've had for 2+ years, it will be 71" ntn and I am hoping for 85+@28-30". From what I read Osage doesn't tolerate run out and is a lot less forgiving than yew. I've squared up the stave and put on the rough belly depth and now I've started marking on the profile for the sides on the back, (I've taken the sapwood down to 2 growth rings which will be reduced to one eventually). A couple of knots 3 or 4" above and below the handle area, that go straight through, have had me thinking and was wondering if my marking out to work to seems ok?
(The bow will be starting 31mm deep and 34mm wide at the handle).
I hope the pics are clear enough, thanks for any help.
R.D.
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A couple more pics of stave so far..
R.D.
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Looks like you got a good start. :)
Pappy
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Like Pappy said, looks like a good start. I've built a couple of osage ELBs and was pleased how well they shot and how comfortably they shot. Looking forward to your progress, RD. :OK The hardest part for me was fitting the horn nocks. :o
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Thank you Pappy, Pat B,
Thanks for that, I'll get the rest marked out and work it down.
I got a hole drill bit ground down to a spear leaf shape for drilling horn nocks that works nice, it leaves it 12mm at the socket, I might grind another for a 10mm socket if it fits in better.
R.D.
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Looking good.
Del
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Thanks Del,
I just finished marking out and ready to go, the outer limbs are marked out a little thicker for now, and I'm probably going to need to tweek with some heat at some point.
R.D.
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I can’t help but will be watching. I want to see how you deal with all those knots. Should be interesting. Looking good to me.
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It does look good so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if you end up narrowing the width down to about 31mm. At the current width with osage I wouldn't be surprised if your stave could give you well over 100lbs. See how it goes anyway, it will be a nice bow.
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Thanks guys,
I was thinking of going 31mm wide and losing the knots above and below the centre, I'll see how I get on with it as it is for now, if the wood can handle a heavier draw weight that will be a bonus.Thanks again, having fun with this Osage :), I'll post progress.
..I got it roughed down to the marks,
R.D.
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I've made some progress, I have worked it down to the starting dimensions and have taken the back down to a single ring, I went through in one place a little 8" from the bottom nock end on the side, I will be rounding the back a fair bit and I'm hoping it wouldn't be a deal breaker, could this be a problem?
( I pencilled it out to show better).
(I managed to lose a couple of knots north and south of the handle)
The back growth ring feels tough and waxy.
I'm guessing the next stage is for me to take off the corners on the belly and back and use some heat to tweak for string alignment.
R.D.
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Coming along good, RD. If you are concerned about the violation on the back a rawhide backing will be good insurance and blend in with the sapwood back pretty well. I would if it were mine. Osage isn't as forgiving a violated ring as yew is.
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Coming along good, RD. If you are concerned about the violation on the back a rawhide backing will be good insurance and blend in with the sapwood back pretty well. I would if it were mine. Osage isn't as forgiving a violated ring as yew is.
Ok, thanks Pat, that was an annoying little slip, I'll carry on for now and see how it looks before I start tillering.
R.D.
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I marked on where I'm going to take off the back corner and I will also be rounding it off somewhat more, and it looks like I will be removing the very worst of the violation so I'm maybe going to chance it, (also i have never backed a bow). Hopefully this isn't being foolish, I have to heat for alignment after I've taken the belly corners off then I may decide, with a more cautious approach, to go down another ring on the back leaving it wider or drop side dimensions all over by a couple of mm, I'll probably end up doing this. I got a flu bug 🤧 so I got some time to ponder.
R.D.
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Heat straightened today, I hit one place a little south of centre bow with a heat gun, I got the worst done in one hit and I will hit another two places later today, one 6" north of centre bow and the other 8" or so from bottom nock(farthest away end in pics).
When releasing the clamps when the bow was cold I spotted cracks which had appeared, I'm pretty sure they are remnants of drying checks that I had previously super glued while the stave was drying. I had a few more gray streaks throughout the bow, most were worked out towards the outer limbs, and when I ran in low viscosity superglue a black crack shows on them. I'm hoping they are not too deep they will be stable enough, I'll run in some more superglue if needed when I round the belly profile.
R.D.
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...and horns fitted ready to shape.
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https://youtu.be/YCT1rgiILBQ?si=64JWY1m4NtiOIfRz just took a video of first bend of the Osage ELB, I haven't done any tillering on it as yet, I'm quite pleased as it's moving nicely throughout. The top limb is to the right of the screen. The top limb has a reflex the deflex going on mid limb and moves more on the deflex, I think this will dictate what draw weight I'll get. Looking ok for a start off point?
(The video shows the movement better)
R.D.
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I would take that right limb reflex/deflex out with heat before I went any further.
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Ok thanks Eric,
That sounds like the right path, but I would like to keep as much of the "crooked stick look" as I possibly can if that can be achievable , I'll have a good ponder and get back to it and get it on a tillering tree. Thanks again.
R.D.
*I I went the whole length of the bow, working down from the top limb deflex area, and put on a much rounder belly profile, I'll see how the tiller looks as soon as i get a chance.*
I'll update once I get the bow braced.
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It doesn't look like the inner third or so of the upper limb is moving much to me. I am sometimes torn between evening out limbs and the crooked stick look...this one would cause me lots of problems though!
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Yes TimBo, that area was looking a little squareish in profile on re-examination so I've really rounded this area as well as most of the lower limb to, I'm looking forward to seeing how it is after doing this, I feel ill have a better starting point, but happy so far.
R.D.
Here's a vid, I've got it moving a little better and I can take some more off inner top limb, the limbs are balanced on the centre.n I'll see what i can get away without heat straightening.
https://youtu.be/ydPxndyLmoU?si=7NuQ2BPkURbWJS9c
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Managed to get to a low brace, it's been a struggle to get the top limb moving evenly, but as good as I can get it, I'm going to hit the mid/outer bottom limb (left in pic) a bit more and then i will pull to a target weight on the tiller tree. Hopefully looking sort of ok. :-\,
R.D.
https://youtu.be/WSER3DIdRPs?si=DxZ3SkKZISYyj5b6
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Getting the bottom(left) limb to bend a bit more and I'd say you are good to go. :OK Gonna be a nice bow.
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Yep looking pretty good for sure, you are coming along. :)
Pappy
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Great stuff, thank you very much Pat B, Pappy.
..just taken some off the bottom limb and will see how that is looking sometime tomorrow, and I hope to have the majority done over the weekend, :)
R.D.
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One more check in, I am drawing to about 29" and feels easily 100+lbs, I will settle for a 30" draw. I had trouble remembering how to make a string on my jig and it was a comedy of errors but some how it came out perfect, more luck than judgement ;D, and getting to the last on my Brownell XS2 string material reel, :D (I cant seem to get XS2 anymore in the UK).
Hope it's looking ok, if so I'll start finishing up and varnishing.
I'll also check the draw weight tomorrow.
https://youtu.be/jPBy9LkVBOc?si=I4eN2ZuoOkNllQim
The bow is 71" ntn.
R.D.
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That's a pretty bend. Looks like you got it right!
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Looking good RD and that’s the only way I could draw a 100 lb bow. And probably would need both hands on the handle. Good luck finishing that beast.
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I took a little off in another couple of places lower limb and rounded off more on and just above and below the weak deflex spot to minimise set occuring there. I weighed it at a 30" and got a smidge over 95lbs, and the bow will comfortably draw to 31". I'm pretty happy with that and over the moon I got a result with this Osage. Thank you TimBo and Muskyman, and you calling it beast got me thinking of a name, and i thought "Wolverine" quite suits it, after the animal from across the pond like this stave was (not the superhero..although I am a Marvel fan :D), or better still "Lox" , as in the malevolent wolverine spirit of the northern Wabanaki tribes. I'm going to now take my time and shape the nocks and finish up nicely.
"Lox" it is. 8)
R.D.
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Lots of luck with Lox, RD. Looking forward to seeing how she looks full drawn by hand. :OK
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Hi Pat B, I'm going to be a while doing the finishing details so I did a quick vid now, sorry about the light, and I'm not checking if any lunch is in my beard, i couldnt see my positioning with sun glare on the screen :) , "Lox" feels very smooth and springy to draw, and looking forward to loosing some arrows, I've got some that should work well.
https://youtu.be/ZZsG9LXc4wE?si=BvPOFnoai8KU5JO5
R.D.
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Looks really good! It looks stout for a bare finger draw! wow. the bend looks very good and not much set if any it appears. wekk done
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Very impressive all around!! Can't wait to see the finished product. Where do you get your horn for the nocks if you don't mind me asking?
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Thanks superdav95, I'll have to own up to wearing a leather finger tab :D,
Thank you ajooter, I did get my horn tips from Scotland, Highland Horn was the name but I believe he retired some time ago. I did buy a big bag off him at a very cheap price. Shire Archery supply the two tone ox horn, and Richard Head longbows also sell cowhorn tips, but there not cheap like they used to be able to get.
I just finished final shaping the horn nocks and sanding to 320grit, I'll finish with wire wool once I've done sanded/wire wooled the bow.
R.D.
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Here's the finished bow "Lox" 95lbs@30". I just finished the third coat of danish oil, I sanded the shellac coating on the back with 320grit/fine wire wool to get a good key for the oil.
I layed in a horn arrow pass with a flat disc of amethyst within it, with gold leaf on the back of the amethyst for added lustre, it didn't quite come out as nice as I had envisioned.
Gold leaf "Lox", and the comic book nerd got the better of me and I put on some gold leaf Wolverine claw marks X (I like to have a mark there for drawing reference to help me keep my shoulders down when starting a full draw).
I wanted to let the oil cure for a few days before I braced/draw the bow, I hope to add a vid of a couple of test arrows some time over the weekend.
It's been a long haul with this bow, from importing the "green" stave back in September 2021 and seasoning it with copious amounts of superglue in the splits/checks, I am obviously well pleased I got a bow in the end. I couldn't of done it without the helpful advice throughout "Lox's" journey, so many thanks, I'm very grateful.
All the best,
R.D.
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Wow what a bow! Just gorgeous. Well done ruddy. I love all the little touches. Can’t wait for the vid.
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Nice bow RD I like it. Lots of nice character. I couldn’t draw it though. Maybe I could shoot it with my feet, maybe. Interested in seeing the video as well.
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Turned out, really beautifully. Some nice character too. A bow to be proud of.
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supadav95, Hamish, Muskyman, thank you very much.
Here's the video I said I would post, and of the very first arrows, (if anything went wrong then I'd of recorded it for prosperity :D, (--)).
They are only short draws, shooting at a 30 metre distance target 🎯.
I was nervous taking the draw any further in the vid and holding it on draw for long to start out with, so apologies for any poor form, and the danish oil still feels a bit toffee like.
The arrows are 31" length, 3/8" diameter, weight 53g spined at 85lbs'ish save the last arrow 59g, 12mm and spined at 110lbs'ish.
The bow is very punchy and I shot a few more arrows on a fuller draw, the heavier arrow worked very well on a fuller draw.
Overall I'm pretty happy :)
R.D.
https://youtu.be/DhO_ws-UUgE?si=il4x4F4aogQxeUwV
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Awesome! Love the hat too. Completes the look! Looks like a great shooting bow. Well done.
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Nice bow Ruddy. I like it. Sweet bend.
Bjrogg
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You done good, RD. She's a real beauty. :OK
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Thank you very much everyone,
This has been a great educational project for me, and has given me a nice jolt of confidence for future bow making. I think Osage is my favourite bow wood, I would mostly use it if it were readily available over here ( I hope yew doesn't start giving me a harder time now I wrote that :-\, I love yew too!).
I got one more stave of this, 68" and stouter with thick rings and seems a fair bit cleaner. I will look forward to a spring project with this one. Thanks again,
R.D.
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impressive bow! very well done :OK
your hat need a feather in my opinion tough (lol)
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Thank you GlisGlis, and advice taken ;D
R.D.
...had a few more arrows with a fuller draw at 50yards with the new ash arrows I made and they work well together...
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Now all is perfect :OK :OK :OK
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Beautiful bow, very well done. :)
Pappy