Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Muskyman on September 08, 2023, 01:49:57 pm

Title: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 08, 2023, 01:49:57 pm
As I was getting organized a little after all my work on my stave harvest I found this stave from a year ago and thought it would make a snaky bow. It’s 76 inches long and has good rings. Wanted to get your thoughts on it. The pencil is about where the handle would be.
Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 08, 2023, 01:50:51 pm
Pic 2
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 08, 2023, 07:06:50 pm
Should be a great project mike.  If it were me I would make the bottom limb the end that is closest to the camera in last pic.  This would take advantage of the angled handle grip and arrow pass.  Just a thought.  I would also go fairly narrow in this piece of wood I think as it has some crown.  Should make a sweet bow! 
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 09, 2023, 09:39:51 pm
Started chasing a ring on this stave today. Got about half way through it and plan on trying to finish tomorrow. Then I’ll work on laying out the bow. I’m going to take my time with this part and follow the grain. It’s got a little bit of twist in it I think. Also has about 4 inches of reflex in it but, it’s not equal on top and bottom limb. Going to try not to move to fast on this one.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 10, 2023, 07:47:55 pm
Ring chased. Now I just have to get straight bow limb thinking out of my head. I need to force myself to follow the grain and not try to make everything straight.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 12:21:36 pm
So I’d like some help with this layout. Picture is what I’m looking at for the centerline of this bow.
Yes, no, maybe? I tried to follow the grain down the length of the stave.
Stave is 74 inches long
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 12:22:41 pm
The rings
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 12:23:27 pm
Other end
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 12:27:47 pm
Pic
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2023, 02:22:03 pm
Mark out the length that will be your bow and cut it off there. Find the center and draw a line across the back then go 2" on either side and draw a line across marking out your handle  then 2" outside of those lines for the fades. From the fade line mark a line across the back every 2" out each limb. At each of these lines past the fades measure from the center line over 1"(for a 2" wide bow or 3/4" for a 1 1/2" wide bow) and work out each limb marking the narrowed width you want the limb to be at that point. This works well on snaky and irregular shaped bows for lay out.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 05:01:13 pm
Exactly what I did Pat. Watched a video Weylin has online on layout. Still have a few questions.. how to address the problem with this knot is the main thing..The dark line is where the outside edge of the limb is..
I plan on leaving-it at 74 inches. My draw length is 30.5
Should end up about 72 inches knock to knock
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 05:03:52 pm
Here it is now
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2023, 05:11:48 pm
As long as the knot isn't darting into the bow you should be able to go around it and then mimic that curve by going out on the other side of the limb. This would depend on the knot and how the knot is positioned in the limb.
 Will you post a pic of the side with the knot and the belly at the knot?
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: PaSteve on September 11, 2023, 07:35:47 pm
Exactly what Pat said. Leave it a little wide on the opposite side of the knot. I've run into a similar ssue on an osage stave and the bow worked out fine. Patience is your friend. Good luck. That's going to be a neat looking bow.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 07:46:04 pm
Might have went to far on the off side. Here are a few pictures. First is the bottom. Knot it right where the pencil mark is
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 07:51:21 pm
Top/back of bow
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 07:54:54 pm
Outside edge
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2023, 10:37:25 pm
Without having the stave in front of me it's hard to say but if you can clear the knot completely then I would go around it. It's a judgement call.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 11, 2023, 11:15:16 pm
By go around do you mean take it out? If I narrow the limbs I might be able to get rid of it, maybe. Limbs are 1 1/2 inches the way they are drawn on the stave and it was a limb not the trunk of the tree.  If you look you can see the pith in the stave. I think I’ll thin the thickness down then try to make a call on what to do. I’m hoping if I do that I’ll get a better idea of what to do.

Thanks for your help and thoughts Pat. I’ll post when I get thinned down and maybe take a few more pictures. Probably end up firewood but I’m going to see what happens. Not going to try to make it to heavy, hopefully that’ll help.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2023, 08:42:51 am
Thin the limbs down and see how the knot looks. You could leave the knot and that area of the limb would be a little stiff.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: bentstick54 on September 12, 2023, 09:34:13 am
Pats advice is good as usual. What part of the limb is the knot located? That can also make a difference.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 12, 2023, 02:57:27 pm
Took my stave down to about 3/4 to a inch in thickness an ended up with this.
I couldn’t take the thought of something like that so I’m looking at it and decided that it had to go. Said if I end up with firewood so be it.
I took pictures as I took it off and of the end result.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 12, 2023, 02:59:11 pm
As I got started
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 12, 2023, 03:00:28 pm
A little farther along
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 12, 2023, 03:02:39 pm
End result is right where the pencil mark is
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 12, 2023, 03:16:58 pm
This is a picture from the top/back of bow. I was a little concerned about how it was going to end up but, really glad I did it after seeing the result. I guess it’s part of learning. This bow has a long way to go yet. It’s got twists and humps in the limbs etc,etc. and with me driving this ship it still may end up in the firewood pile. But I get through the first hurdle.
Thanks for your help and thoughts on this one. I’m sure I’ll have more questions as I go along.
Next I’m thinking get the limbs down to about 1/2 inch and then try and take out some twist.
Or am I thinking wrong?
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: lenador on September 13, 2023, 07:33:32 am
I'm secretly watching your build to make sure I don't screw mine up 😂
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 13, 2023, 09:12:44 am
Don’t know if that’s the best idea for you to be honest. You’ve probably built more bows then I have. And it’s my first try at a snaky bow. You’re welcome to follow along and get what info you can from the people on here who have some real knowledge. I myself am pretty much in the dark here. The people on here are great though and have a lot of experience and are willing to share it.
Just don’t want you to get the idea that I actually know what I’m doing.
I’m pretty much like you. I’m on here asking questions hoping I don’t screw mine up.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2023, 09:41:01 am
Well done so far. If that last pic is the back of the bow you need to get it down to one clean ring before you go any further.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 13, 2023, 03:17:43 pm
I’ve got it down to about 1/2 inch now. It’s just starting to bend a little bit. Tried to fix a spot in it with heat but didn’t really get what I wanted done so I took down a bit. It was about 3/4 when I tried to bend it. It’s so wonky that it’s hard to figure out how to clamp it up and get what I’m trying to do done.
Here’s a couple pictures of it now
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 13, 2023, 03:20:10 pm
That naturally was from the side. Fat fingers aside.
Back of it.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 13, 2023, 03:23:58 pm
It’s got a lot going on   
Question, would you guys try and flatten it out or keep the reflex and maybe try and get it equal on both sides?  I have no clue to be honest. In my head I’m thinking that reflex might make it more likely to go boom. But as I said I have no clue.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 13, 2023, 04:17:51 pm
Ya that’s a tricky one for sure.  Your ready for this though!  It’s hard to say just looking at pictures. But if I were to say anything I may use steam on this piece.  Just to get the limbs looking more even a little as far as reflex bend goes.  You could likley build yourself a side correction jig to get the tips aligned pretty close at the same time.  You could use a wallpaper steamer connected with a section of 4”pvc piping to get the whole thing steamed at once or at least one half of it.  Have your jig ready to go so you can work quickly.  You could try this with dry heat too but you got lots to correct there.   Best of luck mike. 
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 13, 2023, 05:51:18 pm
I’ve got a wallpaper steamer. The tips and the handle are not bad. When I pull a string down it it crosses over the handle. I might try steaming it over the next few days and see if I can get it to straighten up some. Probably need to slow down on it because I’m getting ready to go on vacation   
Don’t want to get in a hurry and turn it into firewood. Might try and do a little bit more work on it then let it sit till I get back home.
The handle is about where the pencil is
What ever happened to your snaky bow you started?
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2023, 06:15:29 pm
You're not going to know how the string tracks until you get to low brace. When you get there you'll see what you need to do.
 So far you've done a great job with this difficult stave.  :OK
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 13, 2023, 06:18:25 pm
Ya the string alignment might be pretty good then.  Just work on getting it flatter then and will be a little more predictable as far as tillering it.  I just use rags on the ends of my pipe after sticking the end of the bow in there.  With clamps and side clapping you should be able to get it to hold where you want.   As far as my snaky elm I’m working on it as we speak.  I just had to finish up the boo backed and bellied bow first and get it posted. 

Cheers. 
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 13, 2023, 06:45:12 pm
Can’t wait to see it Dave. Thanks Pat. To be honest I’m a little bit intimidated by it but, hey I’ll keep going until I either get it done or it turns into firewood.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2023, 10:13:35 pm
If you allow it this stave can teach you a lot about building wood bows and learning the characteristics of wood. Just take it slow and steady and put it aside if you get frustrated or agitated with it.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 14, 2023, 07:37:07 pm
Today I didn’t have much time to work on this bow but, got a hour or 2. Got it bending some and have it to where I’m used a card scraper. It has a crack in the handle and I noticed it goes out into both fades. I’m going to put CA glue in the crack. Probably, if I get it that far, I plan on putting a jute handle on it with the epox n denatured alcohol to thin it.. I forgot what that’s called. I’m hoping that it’ll be okay.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 14, 2023, 07:38:21 pm
Couple pictures. Also cut some knocks into it today
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 14, 2023, 07:39:47 pm
Belly
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 14, 2023, 07:40:46 pm
Side profile
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 14, 2023, 11:22:20 pm
Looking like a bow in there. 
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 15, 2023, 11:10:16 am
Yeah, I see one too.  :OK
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 15, 2023, 06:38:32 pm
Thanks gentlemen but, I’m not sure I’m seeing it yet. Got it bending a little more today and put a string on it and it’s pretty wonky looking. Got to try and bend it some, well a lot , for me anyway. Pulled it about 6 inches and it was 40 lbs. been thinking about how I’m going to do it but not 100 percent yet it’s got twists and bends all over the place.
I’m going to post a picture but it probably won’t show much of what I was seeing. I might have to put it on hold for a while and think it through for a while. Probably steam it and clamp it some and see what happens. Little here little there. We’ll see what happens.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: lenador on September 15, 2023, 07:36:19 pm
It's looking good to me. Mine has a little twist. I was going to try to heat it out
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 16, 2023, 04:59:16 pm
I probably screwed it up but, I steamed one of the limbs and clamped it down today. I didn’t know if it would be a problem but I clamped it back of the bow up. The belly was nice and flat so I figured I’d try it that way. Hopefully I didn’t goof it up.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 16, 2023, 07:06:27 pm
It shouldn't matter with a flat form, steam only and no dry heat on the back.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 16, 2023, 08:12:02 pm
Looks like your on the right track mike.  I probably would have done the same.   Those little wallpaper steamers work well.  Should be a lot more predictable now on the tiller
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 16, 2023, 08:23:58 pm
Couldn’t wait any longer so after about 3 hours I went out and unclamped my bow. It was still damp on the belly but it was much much straighter then it started out. Took a bunch of the wonky stuff out of the limb. But it might have a crack in it along the edge. Maybe. The limb was wet and the steaming raised the grain on it a bunch so I’m going to wait till tomorrow and take a really good look at it. It’s close to the edge and if it’s cracked I’m going to see if I can narrow the limb and save it that way. It was about a inch and a half wide and the area where it might be cracked is less than a quarter inch from the edge. It’s cracked and I can fix it I’ll just shoot for about 35 40 lbs of draw weight. Crossing my fingers and hoping it’s okay
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 16, 2023, 08:32:15 pm
Yep I like my little steamer Dave. I put the limb inside of a downspout about the length of the limb. One end I taped close and stuffed a rag in the other end. Steamed it for about a hour before I clamped it.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 10:44:22 am
Steamed the other side yesterday. Came out okay. Today I’m trying to get it straightened out a little more with dry heat and a little oil. I just have a feeling I’m probably gonna kill it. I’ll know more in a couple hours when I unclamp it. Even if I do I’ve learned a lot from this piece of wood. Hoping for the best but not gonna sweat it.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 01:28:55 pm
Okay so I just took my bow off the form after bending it with heat and while I’m not convinced I’m going to be able to make a bow with it I’m feeling better.
Some before and after pictures

Before
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 01:29:56 pm
After
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 01:30:56 pm
Another picture
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 01:43:49 pm
And another with my lazer shooting down the length
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 01:45:29 pm
Here is my lazer going over the handle. The little arrow is where the shelf is
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 18, 2023, 01:58:18 pm
It doesn't matter where the lazer line lays now with the bow laying flat. Once you get to low brace you will be able to tell how the string tracks.
 Try to be more positive about the outcome of this bow or it probably won't come out good.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 18, 2023, 02:07:39 pm
Thanks Pat. I’m going to give it a few days to let the moisture content even back out then I might try putting the long string back on it and see how it bends pulling it 6-8 inches. Then try to tiller it down to where I can get it to brace with a longer string. Then I’ll go from there.
I’ll try to be more positive.
Thanks again
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 18, 2023, 08:41:16 pm
Looks like great progress mike.  I’d say your in good shape here
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 19, 2023, 04:15:08 pm
Did a little thinning on my limbs and got a shorter sting on my bow today. Began the tillering process. It’s got a little bit of twist in the limbs but I’m hoping I can tiller that out of it. It’s 40 plus lbs at about 20 inches. A little stiff here and there but it’s getting there. String seems to be lining up pretty good.
Pretty happy with it so far.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 19, 2023, 04:16:00 pm
Another picture
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 19, 2023, 04:17:09 pm
And a profile picture
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 19, 2023, 07:30:08 pm
Looks pretty good to me! 
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 19, 2023, 09:01:50 pm
Me too!  That bow will hunt.   :OK
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 19, 2023, 10:36:41 pm
Thanks gentlemen.
It’s got a ways to go yet but coming along. Need to finish tillering it and shape the handle and a few other things. I actually shot a couple arrows out of it today just to see what would happen. Only pulled it about 20 inches. It seemed to shoot okay. Might have to finish it when I get back from Vacation. The snaky limb is a little stiff in a few spots. The other one is not to bad.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: lenador on September 20, 2023, 08:58:47 am
Looking nice!
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: bentstick54 on September 20, 2023, 09:17:57 am
It’s come along way for sure. Really looking good at this point. Very impressive work with what you started with.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pappy on September 20, 2023, 08:35:20 pm
Looks good so far, love them snaky Osage. Pappy
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 20, 2023, 10:30:31 pm
Thanks guys. Appreciate it. I’m probably going to let it sit for a while. I’m going out of town for a bit. Probably bring it inside and get it out of my shed for a while. Made a couple small correction today, so no tillering today. Maybe tomorrow. If this thing makes a bow I’m thinking about putting some snake skins on it. I’ve been looking online but not really finding anything. Anyone know where I might find a couple longer ones. You can message me if you don’t want to post on here. I’m going to keep looking. Haven’t looked hard yet. If I can’t find anything I like I might try rawhide and decorate it..
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Pat B on September 21, 2023, 10:30:58 am
The only thing I noticed about this bow is the outer limbs are stiff and could bend a bit more.
 Also, put at least 100 shot through her before thinking about snake skins...just in case. 
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on September 21, 2023, 04:01:58 pm
Thanks Pat. I’m not done tillering and I noticed that it’s stiff on the outer limbs as well. I brought it in to the house until I’m able to get back to work on it. Probably a week or so. Not sure about the snake skins, they’re pretty expensive from what I’m seeing online. It’s still about 40 lbs at 20-21 inches so I have a ways to go yet. Probably shoot for around 40-45 lbs at my 30 + inch draw
Thanks for your help with this bow, much appreciated sir.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on September 22, 2023, 11:19:53 am
The only thing I noticed about this bow is the outer limbs are stiff and could bend a bit more.
 Also, put at least 100 shot through her before thinking about snake skins...just in case.

+1
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on October 03, 2023, 12:19:08 pm
Just got back in from vacation a few days ago. Apparently my wife and I have Covid. I didn’t test but she home tested positive. Feeling better today so I worked on the bow a little and got it tillered a little further. It’s at about 46-8 lbs at 28 inches so I’ve got a couple more inches to go. Kinda ran out of gas by then so I put it away. Hoping to get it tillered by the weekend. Might make a good string for it also.
I’ll try to post a pic or two later if I think about it and let you guys check how my tiller is looking to you.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Selfbowman on October 03, 2023, 01:12:20 pm
Looking great where do you get one of those steamers/??
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on October 03, 2023, 03:23:45 pm
I got mine at Lowe’s. It’s a wallpaper steamer. It gets really hot. I put my bow limb in a piece of downspout that was about 3 ft long and I drilled holes in the bottom of it. Stuffed some rags around the limb to block it off. For me, doing the hole limb I liked it better than a heat gun. Stuff it into the downspout wait for a hour   Got all my clamps ready. Had my layout done. Pulled it out and clamped it and let it be for a couple hours and it was pretty good. Then I did the same thing with the other limb.
 Here’s a picture of it tillered to 30 inches and about 47 lbs. I think the left side needs a little more work. It’s the snaky limb. But I think the right limb looks okay.

Appreciate any comments on it and thanks to everyone and their input on this bow.

When I get it to where I’m happy with it I’ll probably put a jute handle wrap on it.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Selfbowman on October 03, 2023, 04:21:33 pm
Well done!!!
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: superdav95 on October 03, 2023, 08:49:22 pm
Looks good to me.  Well done.  Ya I use the same steam method mike.  One limb at a time with a wrag stuffed in the opposite end of my pipe.  Works well.  Good stuff
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on October 05, 2023, 01:26:53 pm
Did a little more work on the snaky limb today. Figured I leave it be for now. Took it out to my target and shot about 25 shots out of it. Doesn’t seem real fast but I don’t have a chronograph so it’s just a guess. Fast enough though. Shot pretty good. Not a ton of hand shock. And it didn’t explode, so happy about that. Think I’ll sand it up and fashion some nocks make a string and call it good.
Here’s a picture of my last five shots at 20 yards. Not great but acceptable since I haven’t shot any since early this summer and it wasn’t a lot.
Thanks for the help. I really enjoyed making this one.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: lenador on October 05, 2023, 09:58:21 pm
Looking good to me.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Muskyman on October 05, 2023, 10:43:27 pm
Thanks. Naturally I took the picture of my best group. All sanded up and gone over with steel wool now. Might try to put a handle wrap on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Snaky Osage
Post by: Will B on October 06, 2023, 07:37:34 am
Nice bow!!  Great job getting it to 30”.