Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on August 20, 2023, 11:03:26 pm

Title: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 20, 2023, 11:03:26 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/vXd64JP.jpg?1)
got it down to a good back ring

(https://i.imgur.com/qZwFzSA.jpg)
she is a bit short. If all goes well, when done she'll bend through the handle, have recurved tips and sinew backed.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on August 21, 2023, 12:27:03 am
This one I’m keeping an eye on. 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Aaron1726 on August 21, 2023, 06:27:31 am
Love the short bows, I'll be following along!
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 21, 2023, 08:08:12 am
I know firsthand just how good you are at short, sinew backed bows :)

 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Parnell on August 21, 2023, 08:28:43 am
Look forward to seeing this, Pat.  I think bows like this are the most fun to make.

Starting something new, myself.  I’ll have to post.  Heading up to SC to do some fishing with Eddie tomorrow.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 21, 2023, 12:02:23 pm
Thanks guys. It ought to be interesting. How's she holding up, Pearlie?
 Steve, hey to everyone down in SC for me.  :OK

 Well, I shot myself in the foot yesterday. This stave is 46" t/t but was about 1 1/2" thick. Instead of putting it on the babdsaw I decided to see if I could split off a piggyback mainly to reduce the thickness. It wasn't for greed but maybe a bit of laziness. Anyway that's where I

 screwed up...
(https://i.imgur.com/r5ckrAo.jpg)
 The stave was originally 1 3/4" at the widest. After I split it the upper half that was going to be the back, already had a clean back ring came off uneven and probably too thin for what I wanted.
(https://i.imgur.com/k7p6dQo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8q1UYcd.jpg)
I may try to do something with it later but now on to this project.

(https://i.imgur.com/waVMZe3.jpg)
This stave is 1 1/2 at it widest but with lots of irregularities between the 2 limbs. I've marked of the center line and handle and drew marks along each limb 2" apart so I can make both limb profiles similar.

 I've got one question for you guys that build really short bows and especially sinew backed osage, should I round off the belly or make it flat?
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 21, 2023, 12:46:41 pm
Pat, at 1.50" wide I would leave that belly flat with a tasteful radius on the edges.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 21, 2023, 01:30:02 pm
You know I'm all about tasteful, Pearlie. I think I'll take your advise. Kind of what I was thinking anyway.  :OK
 Thanks
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 21, 2023, 02:52:03 pm
Pat "Tasteful" Brennan is what they call him :)

Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bjrogg on August 22, 2023, 06:13:11 am
Pat "Tasteful" Brennan is what they call him :)


I like that pearl. Watching Pat Tasteful  Brennan.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 22, 2023, 10:40:15 pm
I used the measurements I made previously, 2" intervals along each limb to match the wider limb to the narrower one. Once I reduced the width of the one limb I used a little heat to correct a bend at the end...
(https://i.imgur.com/xAITwNd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PVpbeHP.jpg[/img I let it sit clamped for a few hours then put it on the recurve form. I took the last 6" of the limb down to one growth ring on the belly then clamped the tip to the form and oiled and began heating with the heat gun.[img width=450 height=600]https://i.imgur.com/RUQtYKK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RUQtYKK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nmRl7dy.jpg)
Even with the oil the belly scorched pretty good before the wood would submit to being bent. I did notice a small crack in the recurve but it looked pretty shallow and I have 5 rings total at each tip. I will work on the other limb tomorrow.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pappy on August 23, 2023, 07:13:59 am
Looking good Pat, don't like shooting them but like making them short bows. ;)
 Pappy
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 23, 2023, 11:49:55 am
I'm with you on that, Pappy. I've had this stave for a long time so I figured I'd do something with it. I think it came from Clint. It had my name on it and "$20" written on it.

I just took the recurved limb out of the form and put the other limb in the form to straighten the tip. After lunch I'll recurve that other tip.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on August 23, 2023, 08:33:43 pm
Making good progress
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 23, 2023, 10:07:55 pm
Yeah, Dave, she's coming along. I'll remove the other tip from the recurve form tomorrow. I still have to align both limbs then continue with tillering.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Selfbowman on August 24, 2023, 12:15:52 pm
Pat what is that form made from it looks like granite?
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 24, 2023, 12:36:59 pm
The recurve form is from a big chunk of red oak, the straightening form is 2 pieces of 5/4 decking boards screwed together at 90 degs.
I have 3 of those red oak forms with different degrees of recurve.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 24, 2023, 10:27:20 pm
I removed the bow from the recurve form then realized this recurve was slightly longer than the other..
(https://i.imgur.com/qmOzqgG.jpg)

 ...so I put the first limb back in the form and reheated it.
(https://i.imgur.com/P5Vha1N.jpg)

  Later I removed it and and here is what she looks like now...
(https://i.imgur.com/Hw1mMnc.jpg)

and as you can see a bit more tip alignment is needed...
(https://i.imgur.com/ybDsns3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X7YOmQw.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on August 25, 2023, 09:04:15 am
Looking like a bow in there pat. 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 25, 2023, 11:28:04 am
Yeah, Dave I think she'll make something.
 I've reduced the limb thickness and now she's starting to bend at floor tiller. Reduced the handle thickness and did a preliminary shaping. I'll fine tune that later. I've also put her in the reflex form and am straightening one limb and an initial tip alignment. I'll add more pics later.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 25, 2023, 12:13:50 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/QOF9k6A.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1BkaH96.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Will B on August 25, 2023, 03:18:03 pm
That’s looking really nice Pat. Best of luck with it the rest of the way.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on August 25, 2023, 04:07:18 pm
I love your side clamps.  I’ll have to try those
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 25, 2023, 06:20:20 pm
Thanks, Will.
Dave, the Jorgenson clamp, and some "C" clamps clamped to the form works well when driving a wedge to move the limb over. I use them quite often.

 this is the first limb after removing it from the form...
(https://i.imgur.com/yxNgcN6.jpg)

Here are the pics of the other limb. This limb was relatively straight. I only had to get the tip aligned...
(https://i.imgur.com/6Gl2Qn5.jpg)
 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 29, 2023, 01:13:45 pm
After straightening out the tips...
(https://i.imgur.com/C7kjgl1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qcLahWD.jpg)
I did a bit more on this limb to get the mid limb in line.
Here is a profile shot after the straightening session...
(https://i.imgur.com/5aEcEWl.jpg)

...next...on a short long string here she is at 13"(45#)...
(https://i.imgur.com/uv24XSL.jpg)
..the right limb has a hoopti-doo about 4" out from the handle giving a visible appearance of a hinge.
...next pic at 16"(47#)
(https://i.imgur.com/yYxBYhW.jpg)
...as you can see I still need to get both limbs bending evenly and together but I still have about 16# to reduce.
I'm shooting for 45#@23-25#. She will be sinew backed so I think I can possibly get to 25".
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on August 30, 2023, 11:22:59 am
That’s gonna be a cool little bow.  Still following this one. 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bjrogg on August 30, 2023, 01:11:41 pm
Looking good Pat. If nobody else wants to shoot it I will. I don’t mind shooting those short ones.

Bjrogg

PS I hope I didn’t lead you astray with all my splitting wood off the belly reductions. I did figure out that it doesn’t work very well with thin early wood staves.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 30, 2023, 03:42:39 pm
No, Brian, I've split off piggybacks successfully before. That's why I tried it. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. At least I got something to work with.
 I've been flattening out two of the worst hoop-t-dos with heat yesterday and today. Soon I'll get back to tillering. One of the recurves was a bit more than the other so I've made them the same too.
 It's been an interesting build so far, Dave. Just hope it stays that way. ;D
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on August 31, 2023, 11:00:58 am
I got her to low brace this morning and the string tracks to the off side on the upper limb so I have her on a form to straighten out that limb. Once I'm sure that everything lines up I'll start prepping to add the sinew. I still have 20# or so to loose and she is still holding some reflex. I'll pull her into a few more inches of reflex then add the sinew.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 10, 2023, 02:22:47 pm
beginning the sinew...
(https://i.imgur.com/7rfRdwY.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: IdahoMatt on September 11, 2023, 12:19:53 pm
Very excited to see this one. Looking good so far.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2023, 12:43:10 pm
I'm excited about it too, Matt and curious if I will be able to pull it to 25". That's my goal.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bentstick54 on September 12, 2023, 09:49:30 am
I’ve not been online much lately so a little late here. Everything is looking good so far Pat, and will definitely be following when I can. I have quite a few short staves collected that I need to get brave enough to work on when time allows.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 12, 2023, 11:14:59 am
Here are a few pics after sitting over night in the basement with a dehumidifier...
(https://i.imgur.com/IbDMBDo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JgbqdtI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7zrdTyI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZAxBIe7.jpg)

this was before going to the basement...
(https://i.imgur.com/7rfRdwY.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Juan Ant. Espinosa on September 13, 2023, 06:19:19 am
What a nice project!
 :OK
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2023, 09:36:16 am
Thanks, Juan. It's been fun so far and I'm looking forward to the final results and her possible success.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 14, 2023, 06:31:52 pm
Pat get me up to speed  what you makin,,,, how long,, whats your target draw and weight,, Ill keep up from here,,
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 14, 2023, 11:13:29 pm
46"t/t, shooting for 45#@23"-25" if I can make it work. Your kind of bow, Brad.  :OK   Two courses of Norwegian elk sinew(for now). This was an osage billet I've had for a while so I thought I'd give it a try. One limb has a little snake to it, the other pretty straight. Did some heat straightening and bent short recurves at the tips with dry heat and cooking oil and added a little reflex. I still need to take a bunch of weight off. Before adding the sinew I still had about 16# to loose. I'll tiller the limbs back into the handle at full draw.
 Here is what she looks like now.
(https://i.imgur.com/H9ALc1v.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on September 14, 2023, 11:16:37 pm
Profile looks good Pat.  Can’t wait to see this one done. 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 14, 2023, 11:24:31 pm
Me too, Dave. I just added the sinew on 9/11 so it has a while to go. I do have her in the basement with a dehumidifier going so she's drying pretty quickly but I still want to give some time before doing any more.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 15, 2023, 10:00:12 am
Pat I made a few of those when I wanted to understand why the Sioux liked a 23 inch arrow and how they would shoot,,
I had some bows in the 50 to 60# range that would shoot a hunting weight arrow 180 fps,,,and I went ohhhh,, I understand,,,
they were like 400 something grains the bow pulling close to 60,, but still they were impressive,,a dogwood shaft cut to 23 inches was was 4 or 500 grains,, perfect hunting weight,,
it looks great so far,, I think it will shoot great for you,,,

I think you can get the 25,,,,,
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 15, 2023, 11:07:51 am
Glad you have faith in me, Brad. I guess I'll just have to see for myself.
 Have you used any of the moose sinew yet?
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 15, 2023, 11:42:55 am
Pat I have it on my list,, I just moved to a new place so had to put sinew backing on the hold for now,,
but looking forward to using it,,,its in a specail box so I can find it,,, ;D
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on September 15, 2023, 02:08:14 pm
 :OK
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on September 16, 2023, 12:23:48 pm
also I think the 40 to 45# bow has a better chance of success of going to 25 inch draw,,,35 even better,, I just dont think the lower poundage puts as much strain on the design,,,
good luck whatever she turns out,, its gonna shoot hard at any poundage,,
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 03, 2023, 12:03:03 pm
I released the bow from her form this morning. She's been in the dry(dehumidified)basement since Sept. 11. Once I removed the screw that held her to the form she only relaxed a little, just a little over 1/2"...
(https://i.imgur.com/TxSHVUz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SWf5d0W.jpg)

I braced her and put her on the tree so see how the tiller was affected by the sinew. The string is tight to the belly here in this pic...
(https://i.imgur.com/Krx9OY6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7f1C6CZ.jpg)

...as you can see she needed a little off the left(top) limb. I did a bit more scraping then checked the draw weight. She's pulling 46#@16" so that works out to 73#@25". I need to bring the bend of the right limb(bottom) back into the handle and work on the left limb a bit. I still have plenty of weight to loose.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 03, 2023, 04:54:33 pm
looking great,, :)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 03, 2023, 06:20:23 pm
Thanks, Brad.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on October 03, 2023, 08:51:14 pm
That will be a stout little bow. Lol. 
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 03, 2023, 10:17:19 pm
She is for sure now, Dave. I'd like to get her down to 45#-50# and hopefully at 25"
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Parnell on October 04, 2023, 08:02:21 am
Gonna be nice Pat!
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 04, 2023, 08:13:38 am
Thanks Steve.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Will B on October 04, 2023, 08:22:16 am
Looks really nice Pat!  Should be an awesome hunting bow. Good luck with it the rest of the way
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Kidder on October 04, 2023, 08:40:27 pm
I love the profile on this one. Thanks for sharing and good luck with the rest of the build.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 04, 2023, 10:08:39 pm
Thanks, Will and Kidder.
 I'll be home alone all next week so I should have time to get her tillered out to 45@25", my goal.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pappy on October 05, 2023, 06:59:19 am
Looking very good Pat, should be a real shooter. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bjrogg on October 06, 2023, 06:28:11 am
That’s going to be a fun bow Pat.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 08, 2023, 02:18:51 pm
Thanks Pappy and Brian. She's coming along.
 I did a bit more on her today. In the braced pic shown below she's braced at just over 5". In this full draw pic she's at 23" and is pulling about 56# so I still have at least 10# to reduce. I'll keep her braced for a few hours and try to sweat her down a little before going back to scraping. I still need to come back into the handle some more with the bend. Here are the pics as of now...
(https://i.imgur.com/6w8key4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZUcmieQ.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 08, 2023, 05:55:01 pm
thats looking good,, :)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 08, 2023, 06:00:15 pm
Still way too heavy for me, Brad.
 What can you tell me about arrows for these short bows? Arrow length and spine wise.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 08, 2023, 07:47:01 pm
well Id say something in the 50 # range depending on how long you leave them,,
 that being said,, I did cut some to 23 inches,, they flew stiff,, I took my knife and scraped them until they shot,, didnt have spine tester so dont know what they ended up as,,
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 08, 2023, 08:53:06 pm
Thanks, Brad. That should get me into the ballpark.  :OK
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 09, 2023, 12:50:44 pm
looking forward to you shooting it,,  :)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 13, 2023, 01:43:03 pm
I've been working to get the weight down and adjusting the tiller a bit more. She's now at 46#@23". I put a couple of dozen arrows through her yesterday and she shoots well but is she difficult to shoot. The short length of the bow and the shorter draw with no real anchor point makes it hard to shoot her accurately. I found the same thing when I started making 60" highly stressed recurves but continually thoughtful shooting made the shooting more natural and I'm sure it will be the same with this bow.
 Anyway, I decided to dress her up a bit by adding snake skins. This is from a roadkill black snake Clint gave me a few years ago. I used hide glue for this. I'll post more after Do some finishing touches...
(https://i.imgur.com/OrFsUMJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dYnNXmj.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 13, 2023, 02:52:57 pm
very beautiful,, what arrows did you get to fly,, how long etc
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on October 13, 2023, 04:05:46 pm
Brad, I used some full tapered, 30" ash shafts I had sitting around just to shoot her. I haven't made up any specifically for this bow but I have some 40-41 Sitka spruce shafts that I will cut down and make up for her.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 13, 2023, 04:15:19 pm
those sound perfect
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on October 13, 2023, 07:15:28 pm
That’s gonna be nice pat
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on November 01, 2023, 12:11:57 am
Finally get her finished and a braced and full draw pic. for your viewing pleasure. She is 46" t/t and pulls 46#@23", sinew backed with 2 layers of Norwegian moose sinew and a road killed black racer skin covering. I added a Floppy rest and the handle is wrapped with hemp cord saturated with Massey finish with a thin coat of TBIII. She has 5 coats of Tru-Oil and 2 coats of satin varnish. I don't do it normally but she has pin nocks with no overlays. 14 strands of B-55 with a string loop on top and bowyers knot on the bottom limb and mink string silencers from my Mom's old mink stole. Not sure how long my draw is in the pic but it is about maxed out for me.  ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/mCPUWAO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WckWVse.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Aksel on November 01, 2023, 04:53:46 am
Very nice short bow and good tiller! Interesting to follow, I really must try to sinew a bow one day. Got any pictures of the nocks?
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Selfbowman on November 01, 2023, 08:35:58 am
Pat what does the bow weigh.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on November 01, 2023, 10:19:47 am
Aksel, I'll get some detail pics up soon.
 Selfbowman, physical weight is 12.9 oz.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bentstick54 on November 01, 2023, 10:38:14 am
Very cool little bow Pat. Enjoyed following along. I need to try a short bow some day.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: TimBo on November 01, 2023, 10:40:55 am
Nice bend!  Looks like a cute but deadly little bow.
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on November 01, 2023, 11:50:12 am
Thanks guys. It's been a fun trip.
 Aksel, here are a few detail shots, pin nock tips included...
(https://i.imgur.com/OPY0t65.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lawEEWs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3nwxTU5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bsBXFs3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VRtqjE4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YFsHddz.jpg)
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: superdav95 on November 02, 2023, 12:21:18 am
Very nice lookin bow pat.  It was a pleasure to follow this one!
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on November 02, 2023, 12:18:39 pm
Thanks, Dave. I've enjoyed your build alongs also. Very informative and interesting.  :OK
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: bjrogg on November 05, 2023, 11:13:03 pm
Very nice Pat. I really like it.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: new bow start
Post by: Pat B on November 05, 2023, 11:42:06 pm
Thanks, Brian.