Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simk on July 02, 2023, 03:11:41 pm

Title: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: simk on July 02, 2023, 03:11:41 pm
It was this bow that changed my bowmaking. It was around two years ago when I thought well, Arvins design can't be so bad when taking in account all the records. Up to then I mainly made shorter bows, recurved bows and so on. Since then most of my bows got longer and slimmer and I'm still in love with this kind of bow.
cheers 
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: simk on July 02, 2023, 03:12:59 pm
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Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: simk on July 02, 2023, 03:16:01 pm
the snakey shape offers an almost centershot but the best thing about that bow is she never misses  :)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yVglEKfo1xk (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yVglEKfo1xk)

thanx for watching

Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Bob Barnes on July 02, 2023, 04:20:47 pm
That is a beautiful and well designed bow.  You will make Arvin very proud.  Thanks for sharing.   :OK
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: superdav95 on July 02, 2023, 06:35:10 pm
It was this bow that changed my bowmaking. It was around two years ago when I thought well, Arvins design can't be so bad when taking in account all the records. Up to then I mainly made shorter bows, recurved bows and so on. Since then most of my bows got longer and slimmer and I'm still in love with this kind of bow.
cheers

Amen to that!  Arvin’s records speak for themselves and a testiment to his design.  I made a few based on his design now and thoroughly impressed being how narrow they were and the performance they had.  I’ve done some experimenting with other woods and have concluded there is something to it for sure.  I too have been changed having shot his bow and owning one.  I have tweaked my own designs based on his bow.  Diminishing mass out towards the tips.  Love it.  I don’t know if this concept is Arvin’s and don’t  mean to disrespect any other Boyers out there but he was the one that introduced me to the idea.  Thanks Arvin!   

 I’m not going to hijack your post here and was going to post one too.  I’ll post one of my latest build based on his design. 

Thanks for posting this gorgeous bow Simk!

Dave
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: bentstick54 on July 03, 2023, 12:25:18 am
Great looking bow. Love everything about it.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Will B on July 03, 2023, 08:11:07 am
Very nice bow. Looks like a very smooth draw and I like the looks of that heat treated elm. Nice work!
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Muskyman on July 03, 2023, 08:16:56 am
Cool bow, love it. And I see I need to add some ash to my stave stash. Seems to be fairly accurate as well.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Aaron1726 on July 03, 2023, 08:58:58 am
Awesome bow.  What are the tip overlays?  Really like the shape of the nocks.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Aksel on July 03, 2023, 11:11:12 am
Nice bow, how wide is the bow? And what´s Arvins Design specifically?
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: simk on July 03, 2023, 03:42:21 pm
Thanx guys, its my pleasure  (-S
Good quality ash, strongly heattreated will work too Muskyman.
Nocks are transparent cow horn Aaron.
Aksel,  I just had to measure, its 1 1/2" wide at the fades. To be honest, apart of the length of 68" I dont know anything about Arvins bows, no measurments or proportions. I just saw a few pics and eyballed my own Arvin-bow. Dunno how accurate my copy is but I did and do still like it. I just call it Arvins design because he is doing it all the time 🤗 interesting point is, i had been reading in different books about the optimal length of a wooden bow being 68"...until I tried I was convinced that this was too long for a real quick stick.
Cheers
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: superdav95 on July 03, 2023, 05:42:11 pm
Nice bow, how wide is the bow? And what´s Arvins Design specifically?

Aksel.  Arvin/selfbowman has many posts dedicated to his builds and one could gain a lot of good info just as a place to start for some specific dimensions and such.  Have a peek at his more recent build posts and you’ll get a good idea.  Lots of guys on here with good info on their builds.  Reach out to them and I’m sure they would be willing to share some info. 
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: bassman211 on July 03, 2023, 09:19:11 pm
If you get right it makes a great bow, Nice work.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: GlisGlis on July 04, 2023, 03:23:45 am
Great bow and awesome countryside  :OK
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Kidder on July 04, 2023, 03:14:44 pm
That’s a fine bow Simk. I like the subtle curves.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Juan Ant. Espinosa on July 06, 2023, 05:39:51 am
What a beautiful bow!
Very narrow. It seems you eyeboled very well limits of the wood on this stave when designing. Congratulations!
Video show a very fast bow and a good archer. Very nice fotos and video.
You talk about intense heat treating; have you had wood damage problems with this technique like for example compression cheks at brown too much heat treated segments?
I guess it is european elm. I had some problems making bows with the staves of som sort of Ulmus minor X Ulmus pumila hibrid trees here in Spain. Could you identify the elm specie of your bow?.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: simk on July 06, 2023, 02:24:42 pm
Thanx guys!
Juan Antonio, I have no idea what kinda elm this was; the only thing I know is that it was a small diameter sapling with no heartwood, harvested in Switzerland. I have not had problems heattreating this wood but I have witnessed chrysals on to strongly heattreated maple - probably overdried. Elm has big variance from sort to sort and tree to tree. Imho one should heattreat slow and deep. I either do it with my quartz radiator or with the heatgun always moving along the wood - never stop moving the heatgun. I typically move along the limb 4 to 5 minutes per session with the heatgun 1/2" away from the wood. stop when the back gets too hot to touch with your fingers. a too strong treatment can weaken and ruin  the wood. using oil or solved resin helps for a better heattransfer and avoids charcoaling.

this particular bow received maybe 5 sessions of heat. I did induce reflex as well. In the beginning there was around 3 or 4" of reflex. The reflex got lost over time and many arrows shot. It also lost around 5# of drawweight since.  It still has 1" reflex left now. It's still a very good bow and I hope its stable by now.

cheers
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Aksel on July 06, 2023, 02:54:40 pm
Aksel,  I just had to measure, its 1 1/2" wide at the fades. To be honest, apart of the length of 68" I dont know anything about Arvins bows, no measurments or proportions. I just saw a few pics and eyballed my own Arvin-bow. Dunno how accurate my copy is but I did and do still like it. I just call it Arvins design because he is doing it all the time 🤗 interesting point is, i had been reading in different books about the optimal length of a wooden bow being 68"...until I tried I was convinced that this was too long for a real quick stick.
Cheers

Thanks!

I guess Tim Baker proved very long straight bows can out-shoot shorter recurves. In own my experience long narrow elm bows can feel a bit spongy shooting even with narrow outer limbs, so I usually make mine 58"- 64" for a 27" draw. But maybe I must try the Arvin design :)

Are you sure it´s elm btw? I´ve never seen an elm sapling without heart wood. But maybe you have other varieties in the Alps?
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: bjrogg on July 06, 2023, 03:03:16 pm
Nice bow. Good team work I say. Nice blend of both your styles

Bjrogg
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Selfbowman on July 06, 2023, 10:14:16 pm
Smik that’s real close to my side profile once it’s shot in. 67” seams to be the best length with a 8-10” handle depending on the draw length. I’m for over building the limbs In width from fade to mid limb. Then light as possible from mid limb to tips. The bowyers bible was spot on with the osage build in BB1. I just added reflex in the last 9” of the limbs and narrowed the tips. Not anything new guys. They are smooth and fairly quick. Arvin
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Selfbowman on July 17, 2023, 11:31:59 pm
I share most everything. My goal is to get more people interested in Flight .  There are many bowyers on this site that build bows that can be competitive. You can do this in your back yard if you have a big one.🤠the records are available. Then attempt to brake them. But knowledge learned at the flight shoots are huge.  Arvin
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: simk on July 19, 2023, 07:18:55 am
Thank you Arvin! It's great to have a platform like this where exeperts like you share their knowledge. I have learnt a lot from this place. Making the fastest posssible bow has been my motivation for a while.I lately have been laminating a lot which is very interesting - its like working in a lab where you can adjust single elements and learn. Right now I'm focussed on making the most pleasant bow for my clients. This for me still means a fast and efficient bow but also durable and and forgiving one to shoot. Further I want to make something aestehtic and beautyful and try new woods.  For example I just found out that laminated pear makes a beautyful, but sluggish, heavy and slow bow (-; on the other hand I just found out that black loust makes an excellent backing (-;
However my goto design contains a little bit of Arvin for sure and I think the time will come when I feel the motivation to make a flight contender.
Have a good time!
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: superdav95 on July 19, 2023, 07:40:21 am
Wow. Gorgeous!   Love the look of these bows.  Well done sir
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Selfbowman on July 19, 2023, 09:33:00 am
Those are beauty’s for sure. The long narrow bows draw as smooth as silk for sure . No stacking and are more forgiving than short bows . But in the right hands the short bows get the job done for sure. I’m interested in good hickory be a se it’s light. A 2” wide at the fades hickory with boo backed I’m thinking would be a screamer in this design  . Dave is definitely on the right track I think.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: neuse on July 20, 2023, 08:54:31 am
Those are some great looking bows, I really like the fire hardened Elm.
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Lehtis on July 22, 2023, 12:27:55 am
Nice bow, indeed! And, most remarkable, no artificial and unnecessary arrow shelf!
Title: Re: Arvins Design - 68"ttt - 45@28" - heattreated elm
Post by: Selfbowman on July 25, 2023, 05:06:08 pm
Nice bow, indeed! And, most remarkable, no artificial and unnecessary arrow shelf!


Well us  amateurs still need a shelf. 🤠Can’t be accurate without one. I’ll get there someday.