Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marin on June 19, 2023, 09:26:29 pm
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Hey guys,
It's been about a week since I put my last layer of sinew onto this bow, and since it had long since hardened, I thought it was best to try and put it out in the sun and wind today for a couple hours. I unfortunately did not realize that someone at my house was going to turn on the sprinklers. I grabbed the bow about 10 mins after the sprinklers turned on, and although the bow was on a rock that was not directly in the path of hte sprinklers, it still had gotten wet. I felt the back was quite sticky and brought it inside promptly and dried it. The bow still had its reflex and it did not appear that the sinew was peeling off. I have had to soak the sinew off of a bow before so I know it takes quite a bit of immersion for sinew to come off, and when it does begin to come loose one of the first signs is a relaxing of the bow's reflex.
I let it fully dry and within minutes it was mostly hard and after about an hour or so it was back to normal, though the sealing layer of glue was now a bit more rough. I assume that it was this that had taken most of the moisture and not the sinew.
I was thinking about sanding it really quick with some 220 sandpaper and covering it with another glue sealing layer, but I just wanted to know if you guys think that there are any other precautions I should take with this bow? Have I compromised it?
I was intending on giving it at least 2-3 weeks to dry (I mean the TBB I advises as little as 10 days in dry climates, and I am in a desert state anyways). Do you think this means I should wait longer, or is the fact the sinew was probably unaffected not affect this either? I can wait longer, but I do have a sort of personal deadline for this bow I was trying to make, and if I still could I would like to. Not worth breaking this bow however.
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Marin. If it were me I would give it a couple weeks in an air condition environment if you can. Then seal it up. Just my opinion but this would allow plenty of time to get last of the excess moisture out before sealing up. Best of luck.
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What glue did you use for the sinew?
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Hide glue made from Knox gelatin
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Yeah, I think I'd do as Dave suggested.
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I had already put a coat of glue on it by the time Dave responsded, sorry. I did it, however, feeling that the bow had fully hardened, it being a day since it got a bit wet. I made sure to lightly sand off the remained with some 220.
Do you think waiting 3 weeks should be fine?
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I think you’ll be fine. You could still scuff up the sealer you put on with your 220 like you said and then leave it alone for a couple weeks or more in ac environment in the house and then seal it up. Should be good to go then. By sanding off the sealer a little it may help ya to get rid of any potential trapped moisture left and then seal it and finish up the bow. Best of luck.
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Good idea, I'll go do that right now. Thanks for the advice. How many weeks though since it last got wet should I wait however? Is it okay just to wait 2 or 3?
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If in an ac house it should only need 2 weeks I would say then seal it up. If you caught it quick enough and got most of the water wiped off you should be good in a couple weeks.
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Okay thanks. I’ll give it another week from Monday then seal it up and start lightly tillering a day after the seal dries. I hope I understood properly what you meant.
Whenever someone says a couple, I think anywhere from 2 to 7 so thanks for clearing that up.
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If I may say...before you seal the bow flex it, either by floor tiller or even low brace and see if it feels mushy. If it does give it a bit longer drying time.
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If I may say...before you seal the bow flex it, either by floor tiller or even low brace and see if it feels mushy. If it does give it a bit longer drying time.
Also good advise.
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Pat,
If I flex it and it feels “mushy”, do I have to then repair it or fix if, or can I just wait longer and leave it be? Like if I bend it and it’s mushy, does that mean I possibly caused some of the sinew to slip?
Also when you say “mushy”, do you mean like the back would be kind of soft or squishy after being bent rather than firm and hard?
Finally, once I put that sealing coat on, can I just wait a day for it to dry before tillering? Does putting that final coat of glue temporarily affect the preceding layers so that you have to wait longer for it to dry?
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What I mean, does the bent bow bend and recover softly or bend with resistance and recover quickly. If it still has too much moisture it will bend easily without much resistance and recovery slowly, like bending a green stave. If you don't over do it, don't bend it too far but bend just enough to feel the resistance it shouldn't affect the sinew/glue matrix. You shouldn't feel any difference in the solidity of the backing.
Anytime you add glue you are also adding moisture so I'd give it at least a few days, in dry conditions before straining the bow. Again, feel for the resistance.
Patience is your best tool when making wood bows and especially sinew backed bows. :OK
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Do you think I could put on the final “sealing” layer of glue on Monday then? That would be a week since it had gotten wet and two weeks since the last layer of sinew had been put on. I could then start tillering (and I don’t rush tillering anyways) a week or week and a half after that.
Sorry for all the questions, I’m finding that I have these assumptions about sinew and glue that often are wrong or misguided.
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If the sealing glue is the same as you used on the sinew you can put it on as soon as the sinew feels dry. After that wait for it all to dry.
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Okay, I was just waiting on that since Dave mentioned it might be best to hold off on that to let the bow backing dry after it was exposed to sprinkler water. Since the backing was practically hard about an hour after the sprinkler situation (and that was 4 days ago), do you think by now all of the moisture from the water has left and I can safely put the sealing glue layer on? If so, I can put it on Monday then wait another week for it to be ready to tiller, if I am understanidng this all right.
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I have no idea how long you need to wait, but it is best to err on the side of caution I know it is hard to wait and patience is not my strong suit. Good luck.
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Ya I would let it dry for a good couple weeks. 14 days minimum as you don’t know how much moisture may have got trapped in the sinew. It would be a shame to seal in unwanted moisture and rush things. I would would keep in a dry environment while it dries good then seal it up and continue to tiller. I guess you could tiller first then seal it up as you may need to do some scraping as well. Best of luck with it hopefully it holds up.
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Okay, so wait 14 days (at least) then either seal it and wait 3 more or start tillering and apply the sealing glue layer after I have finished tillering?
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What are you using for sealing glue? You may have already mentioned it and I missed it. If using titebond 3 wait an additional 2-3 days before bending or tillering it as you will have added more moisture with tb3. It works well for me and used it lots. I’ve also used sturgeon glue as top layer also with good results although little harder to get for sure. Are you putting anything over the sinew layer like thin rawhide or a skin cover of some kind? If so then I would hold off on sealing it up until you get tiller all sorted out first as already mentioned I think by pat. Take his advise and bend it some and see where your at then proceed. Any issues will surface when you start bending it.
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I probably shouldn’t use the term “sealing glue” I guess since I’m using the same glue. I was just trying to make the back glossy smooth with my sealing coat. I use the same as I used for everything: Knox gelatin glue.
I’ll wait on the sealing coat I guess until after I tiller
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I am probably going to get roasted for saying this, but that is one of the reasons I use tb3 with sinew. Ed Scott of Owl bows used it too,and made some fine bows. I still back the bow ,and use tb3 to glue the backing. I then use 6 coats of shellac, and a couple coats of min poly. Then some car wax. That works for me, but I know every body has their own way, and as long as you are comfortable with it that's fine.
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Thanks, I’ll have to consider that when I actually seal the backing. I think I’ll just wait to do that after I tiller, unless you think that’s something I should do once I feel it is dry
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If you add TBIII over sinew/hide glue that still has moisture you can cause rot to happen. I have used TBIII to seal sinew but was sure the sinew was completely dry.
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Okay then, I’ll wait till after I tiller completely to seal it completely.
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Beg, borrow, or steal a $20 kitchen scale and set it to weigh in grams.
Weigh the bow.
Wait a few days and weigh again.
Repeat for however long it takes for the bow to stay at a steady weight (no change +/- 1 gram) for two weeks MINIMUM. A month is even better. Sinew and hide glue dry a heck of a lot faster than wood does. Some of the moisture is going to evaporate out into the atmosphere from the back, but some has to migrate out INTO THE WOOD!
Wood is far slower at giving up the moisture, so you want to give it plenty of time to come to equilibrium. I did just the same thing. Left a fully sinewed and mostly dry bow in the rain. I just put it up and let happen whatever was going to happen. Ultimately, it turned out fine. I ended up sizing the back with a few more thin coats of hide glue and put a layer of rawhide over it.