Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Aaron1726 on January 23, 2023, 08:21:05 pm
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I might be crazy and in over my head but here goes!
My 3rd successful(ish) bow and first board bow started ticking at full draw. Turns out my handle glue up did exactly what I was afraid it might do... pop! About half of it was unglued this morning after shooting it....
So what to do? I was never happy with the tiller on this one, was a learning experience. I had backed it with dogbane in an attempt to fix some things and raise poundage, but no dice. Anyway, I stared at it till lunch time and then started cutting. Popped of the rest of the handle, cut the limbs off and spliced them together.
It's either gonna be awesome or a total failure. Gonna be fun either way.
So what do yall think? Great idea, or total flop waiting to happen?
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How much shorter did the splice make the overall length? Should be interesting to see. What glue are you using for you handle riser?
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The splice gives me a 49 in overall length. My thought was to aim for a 22in or so draw length on this one. And I was thinking to sand down some of the dogbane and re-back the whole thing afterwards.
The glue used for the handle was tite bond 3. That is what I'm using in the splice too. It's also what I used, thinned down, to do the dogbane backing.
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TB3 is a great glue for most purposes, but it will lift when the belly lam is too thin.
Only bowmakers high strength epoxy, or urea formaldehyde/resorcinol will hold a glue line like that.
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Thanks Hamish, yeah I will need to get some better glue if I try a handle like that again.
What do you think about tb3 for the splice? I'm scared it's gonna fly apart in my hand. I got the old backing stripped off and strung with a 4in brace. I'm only pulling to 18in right now and 20lbs. I did manage to shoot a few shots yesterday though.
I'm thinking I will be better off to back it. I have plenty more dogbane that I could do that again. I also have some bamboo, but I'm afraid it might be too much for the red oak. And then I have rawhide too, so might go that route. Not sure which would be best. It's definately not gonna be a speed deamon, but it would be nice to have it be a decent shooter.
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Here's where it is so far. 23 lbs at 19in, it's a light weight, but so was the original bow, that one was 30lbs at 26in. Was hoping that this one would be 30 at 22, so might be close. Splice seems to be holding, but I still want to back it with something before I push it too far. Hopefully I'll get time this week to work on it some more.
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Ea 40 smooth on two part epoxy would work too if you can get it. Are you thinking of sinew backing still?
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@superdav95 thanks, I will have to look into getting some of that. Is that what you would suggest then for this handle splice? Not just the glue on riser?
My plan was to put a dogbane fiber backing on this like I had done on the original bow. Mainly just because I have lots of it. I've not yet tried sinew backing, though I do want to at some point, but I will need more sinew than I currently have, only a couple deer back tendons right now.
Thanks
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Got the first layer of dogbane on this evening.
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Got the backing done. 2 layers of dogbane. And got the tips shaped a bit more. Had to take a few scrapes and do some sanding to get things cleaned up and tiller corrected. The bottom is still a little stiff, but might just leave it. Here's how it looks now. At 25lbs at 19in. Still scared to go past that, lol. Might just accept it for what it is and finish it up.
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I think the tiller in above picture looks good.
I guess I haven’t seen the whole board to know what grain orientation looks like, but I certainly wouldn’t be afraid to draw it more because of the tiller.
I’d slowly try a little longer draw. It seems like you should be able to get a few more inches just the way it is to me.
Hopefully I’m not missing something and giving you bad advice but I think you spread the stresses out nice and evenly
Bjrogg
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Thanks bjrogg. I think it's just mental for me. I don't have any experience with a splice like that, so in my mind I'm just waiting for it to let loose, lol. Guess that's part of the learning curve! The board had good straight grain, I will give it a shot slowly increasing it and see how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement.
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I second what bj said. It looks really good. Great job on that splice it seems to be holding. What glue did you use for your dogbane?
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Tiller looks great. Good save.
Handles add ons pop because handles are bending.
Jawge
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Thanks superdav. I added some cotton thread wrapped around the splice that was soaked in tb3 just for some added integrity, but yeah I think it's just for my mental benefit more than anything. I'm amazed how strong splicing with the z like that is.
On the dogbane I used tb3 that I watered down some and then I dipped each bundle in it before laying it on the bow. Then I went back and painted on a layer after I got it all on there. After the first layer was dry I sanded it somewhat smooth and then repeated with a second layer.
I'll get some picks at 22in, hopefully I can get some time this weekend to mess with it.
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Tiller looks great. Good save.
Handles add ons pop because handles are bending.
Jawge
Thanks. Yeah I'm going to keep that in mind if I ever try another glue on handle .
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Put the add-on at the start and let extend into the fades a bit.
I have to admit I have not done many of those. I do like handles that bend a little in a board bow particularly.
Jawge
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Got to work on this one a little bit today. I got it to a little over 22in and it's pulling just shy of 31 lbs. Thanks for the encouragement guys! I'll shoot it a bit and then try to get it finished up.
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Turned out nice Aaron. I like the tiller. Nice even bend.
Bjrogg
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Very nice bow. Good save.
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Thanks yall, hopefully this incarnation will fare better than the original.
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Nice bend. :OK
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Nice bend. :OK
Thanks Pat
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Very interesting bow I'm very interested in short does and dogbane, of which I was unaware. How is the backing holding up?
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Thanks Ken. As for the backing, so far it's held up really good. I've probably put 500 or so arrows through it so far and it's been fine. Honestly I feel like the dogbane will outlast the oak on this one. I made a dogbane string for it as well, just seemed right.
Dogbane is tricky, though. I like the thin fibers, they lay really clean and even, but it's also a pain to get all the outer bark off ( I can never get it all off) so those little chunks are a challenge to deal with, but it also gives it a cool natural camo. I think you ought to try it, I'd be interested to hear how it goes, I couldn't find much on backing with it but figured I'd give it a shot. Overall I'm happy with the results. If nothing else, its kept the bow in one piece. I have some eastern red cedar that I want to tackle at some point and it might just get a dogbane backing as well :)
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Cool little bow.
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Cool little bow.
Thanks, it was a fun build. Glad I was able to save it from the burn pile :)
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I bet people who usually do not shoot stick bows will find that enjoyable.
My family shoots bows once a year, maybe two times, and one bow they enjoying shooting is just like that one you built.
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Thanks Ken. As for the backing, so far it's held up really good. I've probably put 500 or so arrows through it so far and it's been fine. Honestly I feel like the dogbane will outlast the oak on this one. I made a dogbane string for it as well, just seemed right.
Dogbane is tricky, though. I like the thin fibers, they lay really clean and even, but it's also a pain to get all the outer bark off ( I can never get it all off) so those little chunks are a challenge to deal with, but it also gives it a cool natural camo. I think you ought to try it, I'd be interested to hear how it goes, I couldn't find much on backing with it but figured I'd give it a shot. Overall I'm happy with the results. If nothing else, its kept the bow in one piece. I have some eastern red cedar that I want to tackle at some point and it might just get a dogbane backing as well :)
Cool bow, Aaron! I have been working some dogbane for a chokecherry bow I hope to build if it ever warms up enough to get out and find some wood. I find that, as I see-saw the fibers between my fingers to get the pith out of the stalks, most of the outer bark breaks off too. It's a tedious job--I work it while watching TV with the family or listening to music--but not too hard. Has that been your experience too? A lot of primitive-skills people on youtube mention scraping the bark off or otherwise struggling with it as you've said; other people echo my experience the most of the bark comes off fairly easily as you work the fibers. I suspect this has something to do with regional differences or different subspecies of the plant. I find it a lot easier than working sinew.
Whatever the case, it's cool to see somebody actually doing this. Does the db add draw weight/snap to the bow, do you think?
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Cool bow, Aaron! I have been working some dogbane for a chokecherry bow I hope to build if it ever warms up enough to get out and find some wood. I find that, as I see-saw the fibers between my fingers to get the pith out of the stalks, most of the outer bark breaks off too. It's a tedious job--I work it while watching TV with the family or listening to music--but not too hard. Has that been your experience too? A lot of primitive-skills people on youtube mention scraping the bark off or otherwise struggling with it as you've said; other people echo my experience the most of the bark comes off fairly easily as you work the fibers. I suspect this has something to do with regional differences or different subspecies of the plant. I find it a lot easier than working sinew.
Whatever the case, it's cool to see somebody actually doing this. Does the db add draw weight/snap to the bow, do you think?
Thanks. The db added about 3lbs to this one, but I didn't have it in reflex when I glued it on. I'd like to try and see if that would work, might add a bit more that way.
I do like you with getting the pith out, but most of mine the outer bark wants to hang on. I get a few stalks worth and rub the bundle between my hands and most falls off that way, but you get little pieces all through the stack. When I twist cord it tends to all come out as I twist, but for the bow it was just mixed in with the fibers. I've tried combing, but I feel like I loose too many fibers, so I quit doing that.
Good luck with your bow, I'll be excited to see your experience with db.
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Turned out nice, good save and good looking tiller.
Pappy
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Turned out nice, good save and good looking tiller.
Pappy
Thanks Pappy