Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Muskyman on September 02, 2022, 12:24:54 am
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Got permission to harvest a nice Osage tree from a neighbor’s property. Also there is a small sapling shooting out of the same trunk.. how small is to small with a sapling. This one is probably 3 to 4 inches across.. they want it all removed. Just wondering if it would make a bow..
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I've made 45# to 55# bows with a 2" diameter Osage "pole". I would saw them in half, lengthwise and bound the halves back together with small spacers between them to allow for air circulation. Once dry I remove the bark and use the sapwood as the back. These are somewhat bendy handle bows so I use thick shoe leather(or other flexible materials) for the handle riser so it bends slightly.
If I can find a pic I'll post them here.
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I found these pics of "Pole Cat"...
(https://i.imgur.com/SrODbv4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kChaU62.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Evg8y70.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wc9AL2H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jNhSI1n.jpg)
...one other thing I did with these pole bows was to add a rawhide backing just for insurance.
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From a 3 to 4 inch sapling it's possible to get a couple stiff handled bows.Depending on how much sapwood you want to remove.Some saplings have more than others and it does'nt hurt to leave the sapwood on either.Most people who make bows have a lot of respect for a sapling bow being very resilient and perform well.If dried out properly.
Here's a couple from a sapling such as yours.Both rawhide backed but not really necessary.I just wanted to have a blank rawhide face to stain on.Both bows around 48#'s@ 28".One completely center shot and a joy to shoot with many different arrows.0 heat treatment on either bows.1 with a rounded belly and 1 with a flat belly showing the versatility of hedge.
(https://i.imgur.com/J2jnAiv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/v7kgU3m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nQrjQIP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6YE75La.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wWTEJT1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wlOeAjg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V0rzyc8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QftnUey.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YGcB0Gb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/POkO49U.jpg)
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Nah...far too small...don't bother....send it to me instead ;)
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice bows above :)
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Turns out I was wrong about the size of the sapling. It’s smaller then I thought. I stopped by and looked at my tree today just to look at the sapling and possibly harvest it and it’s pretty small. I did look the tree over pretty good and I think I should get some good staves out of it. One section of it from the bottom up is probably 6 to 8 feet and has nice straight bark with no limbs. It’s kinda got two main trunks coming up from the bottom. I’m really anxious to cut it down. Should I wait till fall or does that matter?
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Bowed, those are awesome bows.
I once made a 49# bow from a 1 inch from an osage bow with about 3-5 inches of reflex. I just left the sapwood on.
I gave it away.
Jawge
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Super nice bows Ed. Love the stain job!
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Well muskyman if you can get 1 good one more power to ya.There known be spunky bows.
Yes George I had a sliver of osage 1 and 1/8" wide I pretty much gave away.It pulled 65#'s@ 28".
I didn't shoot that weight any more....ha ha.
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I’m hopeful but, not going to count my chickens before they hatch.. no matter how many good staves I get,if any and I can make one good bow with it / them, I’ll be beyond happy.
I’ve been trying to make one that shoots and have one that I’ve been shooting. Made it from hickory.
The main thing I’ve learned so far is that I need to learn patients. Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of that. If I do harvest the sapling I’ll let you know how it goes
Thanks for your insight on my questions
By the way, those are some great looking bows in the photos.
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Cut it now but then search for how to dry osage safely and properly.
Make sure you have some wedges, a sledge, a good drawknife, plenty of pva, time and energy.
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You'll do fine.
Down the line through your journey as you acquire more and more staves be sure to date them and store them under cover in the shade out of the wind.I put them in my steel tractor shed up on a rack.
Proper steps along the way to storage will serve you well for the future to making a bow from them.It's not complicated rather just common sense.
Lets hope you become a hoarder like the rest of us.....ha ha.
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Got the wedges, draw knife but, not the sledgehammer. I do have a splitting maul I used for firewood. Not sure what pva is though. Got a couple places to store them but the patients to wait for it to dry is lacking to be honest. I dried the hickory I cut down for a day over coals from a fire and some charcoal after shaping it down to about floor tiller. I’ll probably try to get one of my Osage staves like that then let it set for a while. Need to get a moisture meter so I can see about where my staves are as far as drying..
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PVA is wood glue like Elmer's or TB.
Trying to dry osage too quickly after cutting can lead to checking. Cut it, split it and seal the ends for now. In a few weeks or so you should be able to remove the bark and then seal the back well.
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Good to know. I have some tb 3 glue
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True or false? Found this on a website
No need to wait. I have made a finished bow less than three weeks from cutting the tree live. Same day work your stave down to a blank and heat with steam and straighten on a caul with 2" backset, let sit 24 hours. Work bow down to the point it looks ready to floor tiller and place in hot box/drying box for a week. Take it out and file with it a little at a time, storing back in the hot box or hot car in the sun when not being worked. After about 2 weeks you can tiller the bow, it may take some set when you do. Put it back on the caul (with about 2" backset) and heat toast the belly with a heat gun (Outlined my Marc St Loius in TBB vol IV on heat tempering). This will drive out most of the rest of the moisture, and stabilize the osage. Finish the bow. Viola! for those kids who just can't wait!
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Good point....Yes steam contrary to what people might think drives out sap from the wood safely and dries it faster actually.Water evaporates from wood faster afterwords.
Never tried it and can't vouch for the time factor but they say it's the same as submerging wood into deep deep water at least 20' for a period of time.The pressure drives out the sap.
Long ago I did the same thing hurrying up the drying process to get a bow in a matter of weeks off the stump and think there's nothing to this bow making.What's the big deal?As time goes on I've learned that air drying while collecting staves is the safest and gets the best quality of resilience from most woods for being a bow.All woods are not the same.
Exception might be hickory all because of the dry heat treatment it gets.
Heat treating wood above 15% moisture will create checks.
I've found that if the back has been sealed with shellack that the wood takes the heat treatment better and the factor that it actually takes air out from the wood shrinking it making it denser.
Keeping enviornment at 50% humidity and weighing the wood can tell you it's moisture content from a roughed out bow.
To make quality durable good performing bows with different characteristcs within each bow and different woods patience is something that can't be replaced.
Continue on and you will find out in time.What I've stated is hands on experience/long time tested info. from hundreds of bows from at least 8 different types of wood.
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True or false? Found this on a website
No need to wait. I have made a finished bow less than three weeks from cutting the tree live. Same day work your stave down to a blank and heat with steam and straighten on a caul with 2" backset, let sit 24 hours. Work bow down to the point it looks ready to floor tiller and place in hot box/drying box for a week. Take it out and file with it a little at a time, storing back in the hot box or hot car in the sun when not being worked. After about 2 weeks you can tiller the bow, it may take some set when you do. Put it back on the caul (with about 2" backset) and heat toast the belly with a heat gun (Outlined my Marc St Loius in TBB vol IV on heat tempering). This will drive out most of the rest of the moisture, and stabilize the osage. Finish the bow. Viola! for those kids who just can't wait!
True-ish.
Yes for certain you can do quick dried bows. you can even make very high quality quick dried bows.
It is often touted as something that beginners can try.
I would suggest that it is one of the hardest ways to make a good bow! You have to know very well what you are doing.
Whereas on the other hand it is very easy to make a quick dried poor bow.
Using steam on wet wood is 100% a great idea. It works very well and is one of the only methods to dry some tropicals safely. Black and white ebony for example is a prime candidate for steam drying. The steam is only another method of applying heat. However the differnce is that the R.H. doesn't go down around the wood so the outside deosn't get a chance to shrink too fast and cause checks.
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I ruined a number of staves trying to quickly dry them in a closed-up car in the sun, I had the same results putting them in the attic and behind the water heater out in the garage, some had checks you could drop a dime in. This was during an Alabama summer, perhaps if you live in a cooler climate it might work.
If you cut out a bow blank to the almost the floor tillering stage and steam it will shed a lot of moisture, I was trying to dry full sized bow staves.
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Okay, first I’ll freely admit that I’m a newbie. My lack of patience is two fold. First I’ve never been super patient. Secondly I’m 66 and will be 67 early next year, sooo I’d like to try and do this while I can still draw a hunting weight bow.
Another question I have is this. What about if I was to find a dead limb or two on a Osage tree that’s not rotten. Would that work for a bow?
Also not really sure what R.H. means, guessing radiant heat?
Really new to all this and am just anxious to try my hand at an Osage bow. I’ll cut my tree and wait my year or so but in the mean time I’m just looking for a way to improve on my bow building. I’ve known about Osage as a bow wood for many years.
I’ve been shooting a bow for many years. In my 20’s I was shooting in tournaments and belonged to a club and always shot recurve un-aided even when the compound bows came along I stuck with my recurve. Never cared much for them. Just didn’t think they looked like a bow. Kind of how I feel about the in-line muzzle loader too. I was more of a flintlock guy. Spent quite a few years standing on a firing line at Friendship, Indiana shooting my flintlock at the shoot down there. Lot of time spent in my brothers Sue style teepee on hunting trips as well. Good times, for sure.
Sorry about the long winded bio. Just wanted to let you know where my head is at.
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The nice thing about osage is it doesn't rot easily so if you find a dead branch in good shape that is big enough for a bow it should make a good one. Also, RH stands for relative humidity meaning the humidity in your area at the time. Bow wood achieves equilibrium with the RH over a period of time. That, however may not be dry enough to build a bow but if you take the stave to floor tiller stage and can store it in a dry location, your home with a/c for example, you can get it down to 9% to 11% where t needs to be to build a bow. Be sure the back and ends are well sealed.
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Thanks Pat, I’ll keep my eye out for a dead limb that looks like it might make a bow