Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Rowan Bows on August 26, 2022, 03:54:44 am

Title: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Rowan Bows on August 26, 2022, 03:54:44 am
At least thats what the cutomer said 😁

Molle Recurve Elm intense HT 45#@28"

I really didn´t understand what the problem was with this bow it shoots very smooth. A problem was the reflex end deflex limb so the handle angle is quiet a bit forward and tiller in brace heigh is a bit akward. If you grab too hard yes it shocks a bit but thats not the way I shoot.

Speed test ~170fps @10gpp 450gn arrow I know thats not lightspeed but in my opinion ok

Title: Re: Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Rowan Bows on August 26, 2022, 03:55:26 am
few more pics
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: lonbow on August 26, 2022, 07:48:41 am
170 fps with 10 gpp is not bad at all. There is only one thing that I can see: how wide is your working limb at the transition to the lever? It seems a bit too wide to me. Maybe you can try narrowing down the working limbs at the outer third for a smooth transition. This would reduce the mass of the working limbs quite a bit.
Best wishes, lonbow
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: RyanY on August 26, 2022, 10:19:26 am
My guess is the tiller shape isn’t elliptical enough for those wide working limbs. Lots of mass movement even with fairly skinny tips.
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Rowan Bows on August 26, 2022, 01:25:02 pm
I dont feel any handshock but narrowing the levers should be worth a try 🤔
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Hamish on August 26, 2022, 04:17:48 pm
Does the customer have any experience with self bows? If they shoot molded grip, Olympic target bows or compounds, then they might expect it to shoot like them? They are different birds,  and that to me is an unreasonable expectation.


I wouldn't touch the tiller on this bow, until you get an idea of what this guy thinks is acceptable, ie see the type of bow he shoots, how he shoots, perhaps even shoot it yourself. What weight arrows does he shoot? If they are too light that might contribute to perceived shock.
 Have the customer shoot some of your other bows, and see if they find one that they like. Only then will you get a true picture whether your customers expectations are realistic.

If they are not realistic, politely and diplomatically tell them so and offer a refund. (personally I would take a non refundable deposit when you agree to make someone a bow 30-50%).

You get some people that expect the unobtainable. Even if you manage to give it too them, at a fair price then its still not good enough, and too expensive. This type of person is not worth your trouble.

Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Rowan Bows on August 26, 2022, 05:10:11 pm
It was an internet sold. He said he also shoots selfbows but looking his instagram he seems to be more in laminated longbows- didnt find any selfbow pig. I think the molle is ok but you should´nt force it or grab it hard in any direction. Speed could be better, my other recurve mollies were faster but hey... its wood
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Del the cat on August 26, 2022, 05:32:10 pm
Bow looks fine to me... if I had to be picky I'd say upper limb looks a tad stiff mid limb.
MY guess is that the customer is gripping the bow too hard or with the wrong grip. IMO a lot of "handshock" is just down to an uncomfortable grip. I've had bows that would jar on my knuckle, a few minutes with a big half round file and the problem was solved.
I'd just avoid that customer in future, someone else will love that bow.
Del
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: superdav95 on August 26, 2022, 11:05:26 pm
I agree del. Perceived  Handshock can also be very subjective.  This bow also looks fine to me.  Tiller looks good and the transitions also look good as far as I can see.  Removing more wood at the transitions  It’s a fine tuning game of millimeters until you take it just past the edge and a tip breaks or splits.  If the bow shoots smooth for you with a 10gpp arrow then send him with an arrow with the bow perhaps as he may likley be shooting too light a weight arrow and or spine.  Also his arrow nocks may be too tight and grabbing the string a bit too tight upon release. This can cause some unwanted noise and vibrations too.  Just a thought.  I’ve made molles just like this and mine shoot smooth too.  I wouldn’t change anything till you do some digging into what arrow this guys shoots, how he shoots ie grip and form and such and if his nocks are too tight. 

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: scp on August 27, 2022, 09:26:37 am
IMHO the static tips can be lightened a bit more, especially at the ends.
I would double check the arrow rest position and nocking point.
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Selfbowman on August 27, 2022, 06:57:44 pm
What does the bow weigh? I’m guessing it should come in at about 21-24 oz for that draw weight . If it’s in that range he’s to picky. Nice bow by the way. Arvin
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: diliviu on August 28, 2022, 03:35:36 pm
I've never made such a beauty. Nor any bow to shoot over 150 fps at 9-10 gpp,  28".
But I've shot some bows, laminated and selfbows, including some quality ones.
Like others have already said, I think it's more an issue of unrealistic expectations, or low gpp possibly combined with too firm grip.
If I had been able to make such a beauty, the only thing I would have changed would've been a handle a tad deeper (because it is finely narrowed) and a tad more bulbous through the belly center (but not shorter).
(But I might as well judge wrong the handle height from the picture.)
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: simk on August 28, 2022, 03:48:45 pm
Looks like fine work, no obvious flaws for sure 🤗 if it shoots as it looks it should be very nice bow. but if you dont see in person and shoot yoursef it gets difficult at this point. How long is it?
Cheers
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Rowan Bows on August 28, 2022, 04:13:39 pm
thanks for your replies, suggestions and tips guys. maybe I should really narrow the outer limbs but Im kinda like worried what happens to the tiller then. I tiller my mollies like circular in the working limb. like if you draw a line from fades to cross section you have a small circular bow. I dont have a kitchen libra to weight it but the handle is quiet narrow so I dont know if these number would give an issue
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Selfbowman on August 29, 2022, 12:13:07 am
Looks great no matter
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Del the cat on August 29, 2022, 03:32:43 am
thanks for your replies, suggestions and tips guys. maybe I should really narrow the outer limbs but Im kinda like worried what happens to the tiller then. I tiller my mollies like circular in the working limb. like if you draw a line from fades to cross section you have a small circular bow. I dont have a kitchen libra to weight it but the handle is quiet narrow so I dont know if these number would give an issue
Yeah! Deffo don't mess with the tiller!
Again, if I were to be picky, maybe the levers could taper a bit in thickness towards the tip.
May ask your customer to fill in the form number "1D10T " ;)
Del
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: Stixnstones on August 29, 2022, 08:32:32 am
Looks good from where I'm sittin.... I find a lot of folks that shoot laminated bows call them "stick bows" ie selfbows and don't understand the difference. And most fg shooters have zero to little interest in selfbows. The slight thump that we feel is multiplied a hundred times to a glass shooter... just mho
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: gutpile on September 09, 2022, 10:00:27 am
bow looks killer to me.. tiller is spot on IMO..gut
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: JW_Halverson on September 10, 2022, 12:14:50 am
The one part of the equation I am surprised no one has addressed so far is his arrows. What grain weight is he shooting through this bow? Is he some speed freak under the compound bow delusion of chasing the 300 fps magical barrier? If so, he might be trying to throw underweight arrows to gain perceived advantages. Frankly, I think I would be likely to start with 550 grains of the combined shaft, fletch, and point weight simply because this bow is performing respectably well above the "100 + draw weight = respectable fps" formula. 

This bow is clearly storing and returning a decent amount of energy and if there is not enough mass in the arrow to absorb that energy then it has to go somewhere.

Or maybe I am wrong. I dunno. I happen to love the look of this bow and am feeling covetous emotions in regards to said bow.
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: superdav95 on September 10, 2022, 09:30:42 am
The one part of the equation I am surprised no one has addressed so far is his arrows. What grain weight is he shooting through this bow? Is he some speed freak under the compound bow delusion of chasing the 300 fps magical barrier? If so, he might be trying to throw underweight arrows to gain perceived advantages. Frankly, I think I would be likely to start with 550 grains of the combined shaft, fletch, and point weight simply because this bow is performing respectably well above the "100 + draw weight = respectable fps" formula. 

This bow is clearly storing and returning a decent amount of energy and if there is not enough mass in the arrow to absorb that energy then it has to go somewhere.

Or maybe I am wrong. I dunno. I happen to love the look of this bow and am feeling covetous emotions in regards to said bow.

Well said.  Spot on.  My thinking was the same that it is likley the arrows.   Nothing wrong with this bow.   
Title: Re: Mollegabet Elm - Handshock Bad Quality
Post by: S.C. hunter on September 15, 2022, 09:37:55 pm
I like that a lot!  great job.