Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 04:11:49 pm

Title: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 04:11:49 pm
Just thought I might take some pictures as I go along.  This bow is going to be made from a piece of erc that Pappy gave me at the classic and backed with a piece of bamboo I traded Augie for at the classic. Should be interesting. I have very little experience with this wood so it might not turn out as planned. Just a for warning.........I already have the bamboo cut to shape and tapered and a slat sawed out and tapered. I'm working on preparing the bamboo surface for glue up and I'm thinking of trying a reverse style grip we'll see how it goes....
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 06:52:11 pm
Here's what I got so far. Bamboo backing strip apple heart wood riser and erc belly slat.

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Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 06:55:27 pm
Here we are with the riser glued and clamped up with tb3. The bamboo with get glued up on top of the riser to pinch the handle right in between the belly slat and the boo. This should form a sort of reverse handle.

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Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on May 15, 2008, 08:51:18 pm
lookin good so far! keep it comming....

Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: ricktrojanowski on May 15, 2008, 09:04:21 pm
I'm looking foward to see this evolve, keep the pics. coming.  Looks like it will be a real beauty.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 09:20:04 pm
Thanks for the encouragement guys. This is totally new ground here, some people say that bamboo will crush the erc I guess we will see.  :D
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Dano on May 15, 2008, 09:32:59 pm
She's looking good Ryan, The handle is looking like a thick power lam, oughta work well. Have fun
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: cowboy on May 15, 2008, 10:30:55 pm
I'm watchin - hope she works out well!!
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 10:58:34 pm
Thanks Dano. How do you think this erc will hold up compared to the juniper bow you gave me for the christmas exchange? I know erc actualy is a type of juniper.... :)
Thanks cowboy. Me to.... 8)
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Dano on May 15, 2008, 11:20:16 pm
Don't know Ryan, I would expect ERC to be better, we shall see huh?
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pat B on May 16, 2008, 12:34:05 am
Slow and steady, Ryan. I believe the ERC can take the boo but can you pull it off...I think so! ;) Watching with interest.        Pat
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 12:49:49 am
Don't know Dano.
Pat, I don't know slow....lol. I hope your right.
Well here it is all glued up. I already can see one mistake I made. I should have used a shorter centerblock with the reverse riser, now I'm afraid I may end up with to much deflex, especialy if I lose much reflex. Oh, well this is a learning experiment......

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Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Dano on May 16, 2008, 12:59:45 am
The thing I liked about juniper was, that it gained reflex as the tiller went on, I hope thats the case with ERC too.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 01:14:56 am
Thanks Dano I hope thats the case...... ;D
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Rich Saffold on May 16, 2008, 04:11:18 am
I've done a couple bamboo juniper bows and they really perform. I don't think I'd worry too much about not enough reflex in your layout. With that stout bamboo on the back it might be a good idea...
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: mullet on May 16, 2008, 10:43:11 am
  The daughters ex boyfriend is still shooting a Boo backed ERC that Brian Melton made about 4 years ago.55# and it zings an arrow pretty good.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on May 16, 2008, 11:12:59 am
ERC is high in compression strength, so i think youll be ok. if all else fails, and it looks likethe bamboo it overpowering the cedar, you can always trap the boo a bit. just a thought. looks like its comming allong nicely, man you do work fast!

Phil
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 12:04:32 pm
Thanks guys. Here's how it looks this morning. The first picture is right off the form. The second and third is after I cut it out on the bandsaw and trapped the edges in with my farriers rasp. It does seem like its starting to pick up a little more reflex as I start to remove the belly material.  ;D

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Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pappy on May 16, 2008, 12:12:38 pm
Looking good Ryan,man you don't waste any time do you. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 12:16:20 pm
Pappy, I already got another sinew backed erc up drying too....thanks again !
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pappy on May 16, 2008, 12:29:50 pm
Was there enought red in it ,or did you use mainly the sap wood,that bow look white to me. ???
    Pappy
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 12:41:17 pm
There going to be mostly sapwood but from what I've heard that doesnt make any diferance.  Guess we will see.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Blacktail on May 16, 2008, 12:50:20 pm
i dont know any thing about this.would like to try some day..i love the color of the boo...great job...cant wait to see what it looks like when done.john
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: grantmac on May 16, 2008, 03:46:01 pm
I would love to give this stuff a try. However we only get it in "closet lining" packs here, appearently moths don't like it. This stuff has lots of knots, would it tolerate being used as a belly even if the grain is irregular and there are knots? I like how soft and easy it is to work.
     Cheers,
           Grant
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Jesse on May 16, 2008, 04:02:49 pm
Looks great so far Ryan. I might have to give it a try. Looks like you have plenty of reflex. Im going to speculate that after its done the tips will still be ahead of the handle. Looking forward to seeing it finished.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 04:05:56 pm
Grantmac, I doubt thats eastern red cedar. Its probally aromatic cedar which is no good for bows.
Thanks Jesse. I hope your right.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pat B on May 16, 2008, 04:12:34 pm
Ryan, ERC is what is used in cedar chests and for closet linings to prevent moths.
  The bow is coming along nicely.  Watching in anticipation.     Pat
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: StanM on May 16, 2008, 04:17:01 pm
I made a couple of hickory backed erc's once.  One was an elb the other a deflex/reflex.  I loved working with the cedar, so easy to work and smelled nice.  First deer I ever shot with an all wood bow was with the elb.  I had to thin the hickory pretty good if I remember right and still got a couple of frets on the belly.  You are a heckuva bowmaker, Ryan, I look forward to seeing this when it is done.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 04:20:56 pm
Thanks fellas'
 I didnt know that Pat.....I always thought that was white cedar.  ???
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pat B on May 16, 2008, 07:28:11 pm
Not down south!  ;D    Pat
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 16, 2008, 09:03:19 pm
Well I majorly botched that one. :-[ I started tillering with the long string and blew frets in the belly right off of the fades instantly. I guess I didnt taper out the riser enough that coupled with pulling on it to much to soon it was all bending right at the fade and I couldnt tell till I took it off the tiller tree. I'm going to grind that section out and glue some new wood in if I can. I never tried that before but I've seen it done.... :(
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Hillbilly on May 16, 2008, 09:42:40 pm
Bummer.  :'(
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: mullet on May 16, 2008, 10:41:22 pm
  That sucks, I blew one in a million pieces one nite floor tillering. I couldn't believe how little tolerence that wood gives you.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 17, 2008, 12:39:12 am
Well there may be some hope still it looks like the patch took pretty well, here are a couple of pictures. I ground out the damaged area and glued in a plug made of new erc heart wood. It was actualy way easier than I expected it to be. The first picture is of the patch being clamed up in my vise the other one is of what it looks like now.

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Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pat B on May 17, 2008, 01:01:22 am
Watch that glue line right at the fade.    Pat
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 17, 2008, 01:23:51 am
Ya, its a little thick there but I dont think it'll be a problem. I never have trouble with thick glue lines only were theres a void and trust me I used plenty of glue.  I havent had a single glue joint failure since I started using titebond 3 instead of 2. Its good stuff.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Dano on May 17, 2008, 01:34:55 am
Nice job on the patch Ryan, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: grantmac on May 17, 2008, 02:01:48 am
The closet stuff here is being sold as aromatic cedar/tennessee cedar. It's got lots of knots though, should I still try it?
 Thanks,
       Grant
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 17, 2008, 02:29:32 am
Does it have red heart wood like this stuff? I'd dig threw it and try to find some clear pieces maybe if you splice it in the handle ? Knots are only problematic if there on the edge of the limb or the knot runs side ways threw the limb....if you get what I'm saying. Instead of running from back to belly they run edge to edge....thats bad you dont want that.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Rich Saffold on May 17, 2008, 02:33:33 am
Grant, That Western Cedar, and its good for about fifty shots on an overbuilt 30# bow...The Eastern cedar is much better bow wood.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: El Destructo on May 17, 2008, 02:46:56 am
Ryan, ERC is what is used in cedar chests and for closet linings to prevent moths.
  The bow is coming along nicely.  Watching in anticipation.     Pat

Pat....what Cedar do they normally make Fence Posts from?? I know where there is a Pile of Cedar Posts!!!
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: M-P on May 17, 2008, 04:39:38 am
El D,  The  cedar fence posts I've seen have all been western red cedar.  It splits nicely and can make beautiful (though somewhat brittle) arrows, but I wouldn't  want to make a bow of it.    Ron
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: El Destructo on May 17, 2008, 07:40:25 am
          Thats what I was afraid of...I know they were too good to be true!! Too bad it was Bodark instead of Cedar!!!
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Marc St Louis on May 17, 2008, 10:31:26 am
It looks like you used the sapwood for the belly. I think the sapwood is weaker in compression than the heartwood.  I backed some with White Ash several years ago and it turned out well.  I did get a compression fracture around a knot but did a repair like yours and it held.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Pat B on May 17, 2008, 11:02:42 am
Western Red Cedar is the most common fence posts in the National Hardware stores. In areas where ERC lives, many use it for fence posts and have for hundreds of years.  It is very easy to tell ERC by the color of fresh wood(purple) and its unmistakable ERC scent.     Pat
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Easternarcher on May 17, 2008, 01:24:07 pm
Ryano, I like your work so far...I'm curious about how that cedar will stand up to the boo...

Also, I'm intrigued by your use of inner tube to wrap the limbs tight. How does that work out for ya? As if I didn't know already! ::) Must be a bear to hold all those lams together while wrapping huh? How do you anchor the loose ends?
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: grantmac on May 17, 2008, 01:59:27 pm
it's this stuff:
http://www.westwindhardwood.com/price_soft_a-l.php#cedar_tennessee

Which I think is ERC.
        Cheers,
             Grant
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Minuteman on May 17, 2008, 05:45:14 pm
Thats the stuff I call ERC.Western is brown and Eastern is more pink with white sapwood.
 Hey Ryan-o did you trade a hickory stave for that boo?
 If so you got it from me not Auggie.  Although I may have traded or gave Auggie a piece and just don't remember. I have ripped three backing strip out of that stick you traded me, think theres two more in it.
 Nice save with the patch.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 17, 2008, 11:01:59 pm
Ya, ok then it was you minuteman....glad you put the hickory to good use.
Ryano, I like your work so far...I'm curious about how that cedar will stand up to the boo...

Also, I'm intrigued by your use of inner tube to wrap the limbs tight. How does that work out for ya? As if I didn't know already! ::) Must be a bear to hold all those lams together while wrapping huh? How do you anchor the loose ends?
No promblems with the laminations I just start by clamping the handle area nad working my way out to each tip. A few pieces of masking tape helps to keep it where you want it.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Ryano on May 17, 2008, 11:07:16 pm
Grant that does look like erc and it even gives the real name above it and its some kind of juniper, so it must be erc.
Marc, The sapwood was the only thing knot free enough on this stave to try for a laminated bow. I might have some smaller piece of heart wood I could splice for another belly core. This bow is totaly experimental.......Like I said I have very little experiance with this wood.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: CutNShoot on May 22, 2008, 02:51:07 pm
I think the boo over powered the belly. I would try raw hide, or really thin and maybe even trapped boo.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: Hillbilly on May 22, 2008, 03:58:30 pm
Yep, Juniperus virginiana is ERC.
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: GregB on May 22, 2008, 09:20:06 pm
Can't believe I just eye'd this string...I'm caught up now, and wishing you luck! ;)
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: brian melton on May 23, 2008, 01:16:41 am

           The bows I built had super flat bellies, and most had majority heart wood....


Brian
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: david w. on May 23, 2008, 01:30:13 am
nice bow this is fun to watch. ERC is beautiful stuff
Title: Re: I'm going to try a bamboo backed ERC
Post by: grantmac on May 23, 2008, 02:16:21 am
I should be picking-up 5-10 board feet of ERC tomorrow, at $3.50/BF it's hard not to. They have 30-40BF of it so I get my pick of the best boards. A few pin knots won't be a problem will they? I'm looking forward to working with something softer and better smelling, all this Ipe has taken it's toll!
    Cheers,
         Grant