Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ryano on May 15, 2008, 04:11:49 pm
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Just thought I might take some pictures as I go along. This bow is going to be made from a piece of erc that Pappy gave me at the classic and backed with a piece of bamboo I traded Augie for at the classic. Should be interesting. I have very little experience with this wood so it might not turn out as planned. Just a for warning.........I already have the bamboo cut to shape and tapered and a slat sawed out and tapered. I'm working on preparing the bamboo surface for glue up and I'm thinking of trying a reverse style grip we'll see how it goes....
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Here's what I got so far. Bamboo backing strip apple heart wood riser and erc belly slat.
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Here we are with the riser glued and clamped up with tb3. The bamboo with get glued up on top of the riser to pinch the handle right in between the belly slat and the boo. This should form a sort of reverse handle.
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lookin good so far! keep it comming....
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I'm looking foward to see this evolve, keep the pics. coming. Looks like it will be a real beauty.
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Thanks for the encouragement guys. This is totally new ground here, some people say that bamboo will crush the erc I guess we will see. :D
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She's looking good Ryan, The handle is looking like a thick power lam, oughta work well. Have fun
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I'm watchin - hope she works out well!!
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Thanks Dano. How do you think this erc will hold up compared to the juniper bow you gave me for the christmas exchange? I know erc actualy is a type of juniper.... :)
Thanks cowboy. Me to.... 8)
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Don't know Ryan, I would expect ERC to be better, we shall see huh?
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Slow and steady, Ryan. I believe the ERC can take the boo but can you pull it off...I think so! ;) Watching with interest. Pat
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Don't know Dano.
Pat, I don't know slow....lol. I hope your right.
Well here it is all glued up. I already can see one mistake I made. I should have used a shorter centerblock with the reverse riser, now I'm afraid I may end up with to much deflex, especialy if I lose much reflex. Oh, well this is a learning experiment......
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The thing I liked about juniper was, that it gained reflex as the tiller went on, I hope thats the case with ERC too.
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Thanks Dano I hope thats the case...... ;D
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I've done a couple bamboo juniper bows and they really perform. I don't think I'd worry too much about not enough reflex in your layout. With that stout bamboo on the back it might be a good idea...
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The daughters ex boyfriend is still shooting a Boo backed ERC that Brian Melton made about 4 years ago.55# and it zings an arrow pretty good.
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ERC is high in compression strength, so i think youll be ok. if all else fails, and it looks likethe bamboo it overpowering the cedar, you can always trap the boo a bit. just a thought. looks like its comming allong nicely, man you do work fast!
Phil
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Thanks guys. Here's how it looks this morning. The first picture is right off the form. The second and third is after I cut it out on the bandsaw and trapped the edges in with my farriers rasp. It does seem like its starting to pick up a little more reflex as I start to remove the belly material. ;D
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Looking good Ryan,man you don't waste any time do you. :)
Pappy
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Pappy, I already got another sinew backed erc up drying too....thanks again !
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Was there enought red in it ,or did you use mainly the sap wood,that bow look white to me. ???
Pappy
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There going to be mostly sapwood but from what I've heard that doesnt make any diferance. Guess we will see.
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i dont know any thing about this.would like to try some day..i love the color of the boo...great job...cant wait to see what it looks like when done.john
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I would love to give this stuff a try. However we only get it in "closet lining" packs here, appearently moths don't like it. This stuff has lots of knots, would it tolerate being used as a belly even if the grain is irregular and there are knots? I like how soft and easy it is to work.
Cheers,
Grant
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Looks great so far Ryan. I might have to give it a try. Looks like you have plenty of reflex. Im going to speculate that after its done the tips will still be ahead of the handle. Looking forward to seeing it finished.
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Grantmac, I doubt thats eastern red cedar. Its probally aromatic cedar which is no good for bows.
Thanks Jesse. I hope your right.
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Ryan, ERC is what is used in cedar chests and for closet linings to prevent moths.
The bow is coming along nicely. Watching in anticipation. Pat
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I made a couple of hickory backed erc's once. One was an elb the other a deflex/reflex. I loved working with the cedar, so easy to work and smelled nice. First deer I ever shot with an all wood bow was with the elb. I had to thin the hickory pretty good if I remember right and still got a couple of frets on the belly. You are a heckuva bowmaker, Ryan, I look forward to seeing this when it is done.
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Thanks fellas'
I didnt know that Pat.....I always thought that was white cedar. ???
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Not down south! ;D Pat
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Well I majorly botched that one. :-[ I started tillering with the long string and blew frets in the belly right off of the fades instantly. I guess I didnt taper out the riser enough that coupled with pulling on it to much to soon it was all bending right at the fade and I couldnt tell till I took it off the tiller tree. I'm going to grind that section out and glue some new wood in if I can. I never tried that before but I've seen it done.... :(
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Bummer. :'(
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That sucks, I blew one in a million pieces one nite floor tillering. I couldn't believe how little tolerence that wood gives you.
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Well there may be some hope still it looks like the patch took pretty well, here are a couple of pictures. I ground out the damaged area and glued in a plug made of new erc heart wood. It was actualy way easier than I expected it to be. The first picture is of the patch being clamed up in my vise the other one is of what it looks like now.
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Watch that glue line right at the fade. Pat
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Ya, its a little thick there but I dont think it'll be a problem. I never have trouble with thick glue lines only were theres a void and trust me I used plenty of glue. I havent had a single glue joint failure since I started using titebond 3 instead of 2. Its good stuff.
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Nice job on the patch Ryan, keep up the good work.
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The closet stuff here is being sold as aromatic cedar/tennessee cedar. It's got lots of knots though, should I still try it?
Thanks,
Grant
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Does it have red heart wood like this stuff? I'd dig threw it and try to find some clear pieces maybe if you splice it in the handle ? Knots are only problematic if there on the edge of the limb or the knot runs side ways threw the limb....if you get what I'm saying. Instead of running from back to belly they run edge to edge....thats bad you dont want that.
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Grant, That Western Cedar, and its good for about fifty shots on an overbuilt 30# bow...The Eastern cedar is much better bow wood.
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Ryan, ERC is what is used in cedar chests and for closet linings to prevent moths.
The bow is coming along nicely. Watching in anticipation. Pat
Pat....what Cedar do they normally make Fence Posts from?? I know where there is a Pile of Cedar Posts!!!
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El D, The cedar fence posts I've seen have all been western red cedar. It splits nicely and can make beautiful (though somewhat brittle) arrows, but I wouldn't want to make a bow of it. Ron
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Thats what I was afraid of...I know they were too good to be true!! Too bad it was Bodark instead of Cedar!!!
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It looks like you used the sapwood for the belly. I think the sapwood is weaker in compression than the heartwood. I backed some with White Ash several years ago and it turned out well. I did get a compression fracture around a knot but did a repair like yours and it held.
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Western Red Cedar is the most common fence posts in the National Hardware stores. In areas where ERC lives, many use it for fence posts and have for hundreds of years. It is very easy to tell ERC by the color of fresh wood(purple) and its unmistakable ERC scent. Pat
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Ryano, I like your work so far...I'm curious about how that cedar will stand up to the boo...
Also, I'm intrigued by your use of inner tube to wrap the limbs tight. How does that work out for ya? As if I didn't know already! ::) Must be a bear to hold all those lams together while wrapping huh? How do you anchor the loose ends?
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it's this stuff:
http://www.westwindhardwood.com/price_soft_a-l.php#cedar_tennessee
Which I think is ERC.
Cheers,
Grant
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Thats the stuff I call ERC.Western is brown and Eastern is more pink with white sapwood.
Hey Ryan-o did you trade a hickory stave for that boo?
If so you got it from me not Auggie. Although I may have traded or gave Auggie a piece and just don't remember. I have ripped three backing strip out of that stick you traded me, think theres two more in it.
Nice save with the patch.
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Ya, ok then it was you minuteman....glad you put the hickory to good use.
Ryano, I like your work so far...I'm curious about how that cedar will stand up to the boo...
Also, I'm intrigued by your use of inner tube to wrap the limbs tight. How does that work out for ya? As if I didn't know already! ::) Must be a bear to hold all those lams together while wrapping huh? How do you anchor the loose ends?
No promblems with the laminations I just start by clamping the handle area nad working my way out to each tip. A few pieces of masking tape helps to keep it where you want it.
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Grant that does look like erc and it even gives the real name above it and its some kind of juniper, so it must be erc.
Marc, The sapwood was the only thing knot free enough on this stave to try for a laminated bow. I might have some smaller piece of heart wood I could splice for another belly core. This bow is totaly experimental.......Like I said I have very little experiance with this wood.
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I think the boo over powered the belly. I would try raw hide, or really thin and maybe even trapped boo.
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Yep, Juniperus virginiana is ERC.
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Can't believe I just eye'd this string...I'm caught up now, and wishing you luck! ;)
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The bows I built had super flat bellies, and most had majority heart wood....
Brian
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nice bow this is fun to watch. ERC is beautiful stuff
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I should be picking-up 5-10 board feet of ERC tomorrow, at $3.50/BF it's hard not to. They have 30-40BF of it so I get my pick of the best boards. A few pin knots won't be a problem will they? I'm looking forward to working with something softer and better smelling, all this Ipe has taken it's toll!
Cheers,
Grant