Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: freke on April 26, 2021, 09:28:50 am
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Hi,
Started a tread a month ago, asking for tilering help. The bow turned out pretty good fast straight shooter, only issue I actually had with it was the noise, never built a bow that was this noisy, had to put on silencer.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,69859.0.html
After about 200-300 arrows divided on a couple of days shooting I heard a cracking noise.
I put some tension to the limb and quickly wipe black stain over the back, this is the result after I scratch of the finish.
Seems the bow itself survived, lost some of its original reflex but still about 1"-1,5" reflex - think it has potential to be repaired.
Any suggestions about best repair this kind of splinter on Hazel?
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It looks like a ring grain run out on the back of your bow or a splinter.My best shot at it would be to glue hair flax clean accross the bow in that area tapering out above splinter a good 2".Then wrap it with sinew to be sure.
I've fixed pin knot splinter before just with flax with no wrapping but putting rawhide on limbs then.
Bow looks tillered well.It might help to relieve stress on that area with above and below scrapes of area before flaxing and wrapping and then adjusting other limb too.
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I looks like splinter but the grain is not perfectly parallel to bow and likely part of the issue to - easily noticed when I hatched the sides of the stave and bow is shorter and narrower than intended du to it, much part of the fun.
Didn't thought of flax, how thick layer of flax is enough do you think? Do you sugest hide glue or white glue?
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Honestly not much thickness is needed.1/32" dried and sanded smooth.Tapered well above and below splinter.Both glues you sugggested will work.The fine flax hair needs to be laid in straight length wise.It can be hard to work with.Wants to stick to everything including fingers.
I can't guarantee it'll work for ya,but worth a shot.
Going down a little in draw weight will help.
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So when you lay out your bow, draw a line right down the venter of the stave following those tip to tip grain lines and then measure you width from both sides of that line. in So if you want a 1.5 in. width measure 0.75 in. in either side of that line. freke, this is advice for your next one. Jawge
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So when you lay out your bow, draw a line right down the venter of the stave following those tip to tip grain lines and then measure you width from both sides of that line. in So if you want a 1.5 in. width measure 0.75 in. in either side of that line. freke, this is advice for your next one. Jawge
Thanks, very good advice.
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I agree ....Good point Jawge.
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Hi,
Followed advice, locally flax backed and secured with sinew.
I took some material off above and bellow to undress some, I have not tiler the bow after reparation and it likely need some correction, post a picture to share current curve if anyone want to comment?
I used hide glue for both flax and sinews - messy, especially the flax, toke a chance and used similar method as for raw hide and first apply glue and then melt on the flax with a warm spoon instead of put the fiber in the glue first.
It give away some cracking sound once I pull the string think it should be okay but scary, once tiller is okay I intend to cover the glue up with birch bark.
Thx
Jonas
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Good solution to putting on flax hair.Tiller looks pretty good Jonas.Nice job and you did what you could.Good luck.I would pull it to full draw on the tillering tree a bunch after any corrections for safetys' sake and before applying birch bark..Good pictures.
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https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/08/splinter-repair.html
Del
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Here's the link to my fix.It's had many many arrows shot through it at 3D courses along with a couple of deer hunting seasons under its' belt since the fix.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,58761.0.html
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Thanks BowEd/Del - two nice reparations .
/Jonas
Edit, test it on the tiller and it worked great, then shoot it it made some loud crack noise and I am sure it is the hide glue but my nerves are shaky...
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The thicker the repair the more it has a tendency to make a cracking noise.Your probably right.It was the hide glue.
Single wrapping of sinew should be good enough.Does'nt hurt to add a bit more though.
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If you used glue thatwas too thick it can make odd little ticking noises....
But one big tick isn't good there is a fair chance that was your glue bond going south....
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Basically it shouldn't be making any noises! I'd take it off and redo it. Use 5 - 10% glue for sizing and 25 - 30% for the actual glue-up.
Also it looks like your bow is bending too little mid to outer limb. What width taper do you have on this bow?
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Basically it shouldn't be making any noises! I'd take it off and redo it. Use 5 - 10% glue for sizing and 25 - 30% for the actual glue-up.
Also it looks like your bow is bending too little mid to outer limb. What width taper do you have on this bow?
Are you sure about sinews with hide glue do not make noise? I have both sinew and hide backed a few bows during the years (not much :)) with hide glue and they have all give away some noise when I pull them first times, have taken that for normal.
Pyramid(ish) design 42mm down to 13 mm in nock.
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Hide glue should not make noise when the bow is drawn. That's a sign of too much glue or damaged glue.
You wouldn't be able to hunt with a sinew backed bow if it made noises.
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Hide glue should not make noise when the bow is drawn. That's a sign of too much glue or damaged glue.
You wouldn't be able to hunt with a sinew backed bow if it made noises.
Hunting should not be an issue with my previous bows as they are all dead silent after some use, but yeas all did some cracking sound(not loud) on most of the bow in the beginning. Suppose local spots of too much glue, never had any failures so assume the glue is fine, maybe too hard.
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As Pat says a creaking bow isn't mich use!!!
But seriously though absolutely not, no your glue should not be making noises :)
what I said above still holds and yes i'm 100% certain :) I've been doing this for a while now :)
The tiller needs addressing first. Hazel is some tension strong wood. Sure it does vary in quality but good pieces will not raise splinters if tillered properly. Chrysaling at pin knots is another thing but not splinters.
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I agree the cracking noise should'nt really be happening.It's either from too thick of glue or too much glue.
I used smooth on on my flax patch.I sanded it dried to a very thin layer patch.Mine was a pin knot splinter on the bow post.It did'nt crack any.
I remember doing my first sinewed bow back in 2009.Probably did'nt size it very well.I don't remember.Piss poor layering of sinew.Filled cracks in with hide glue etc instead of using sinew strands.Did'nt wrap it any and reheat it.That bow cracked a lot when first drawn but did'nt fail yet.
Since then sinewing many bows I'm very careful to do a top notch job layering the sinew down.Sizing well with very thin glue first multiple times.Your sizing step is very important.That bond between your sizing and your sinew is very important.It takes practice and discriminatng self judgement of your sinewing to get satisfied with your job.
As said earlier in your post with Jawge and me the layout of your center line probably was'nt on the crown the whole way and at an angle.That's your biggest culprit here IMO.
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Thanks for all good advice :) so far,
I will start sand/smooth the sinew wrapping try to get as much excessive glue of and apply one more layer sinew and then re-tiller the bow and cross finger it solve the issue.
If I still get cracking noise I will follow Bownarras suggestion (although I don't like it:) ) - redo the job
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Listening to advices to try fix tiller have I remove wood, Well I would like to hear comments?
I have taken of much wood but see very little change, worried all comes at once :-[
Regarding cracking noise, closer look the fads of the flux backing had execive glue with little flux fiber and I could see cracks so I sanded and scratch down the fades of the glue joints and added more sinew, have to do better next time - no cracking noise so far.
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Tiller looks spot on freke.Good follow up.It does'nt have to be a very thick repair.Hope it holds up for you.