Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bryce on March 06, 2021, 02:10:01 am

Title: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 06, 2021, 02:10:01 am
 

  This past summer i found myself a little piece of slightly waved buckthorn amongst my staves. ive never worked this wood before so i thought it would make a good little shorty for myself. its been a really long time since ive made a bow for myself. and to be honest i just wanted to make something simple.
so i went for just the basic D shaped bendy handle.
  i have to say, this wood is really impressive stuff. its light but can really take on some stress. i was always really impressed with Cody Wrights buckthorn bows and found that his claims about the wood were in fact legit.
what a great material. not to mention beautiful contrast and flexibility. smells good too lol
i had built this bow in the summer time, thrown a couple coats of finish on it and for some reason i just set it aside, and only just last week put the final coats on and finished it up.

  Anyways, its about 1 3/8" at its widest. tapers to some 3/8" wide flared peg nocks with a bit of horn
i filled the knots and old bark holes with some crushed turquoise and CA.
8 coats of Tru-Oil and the final coat is Satin Varathane (oil based)
the handles-back is build up with just a bit of cork.
i had a bit of kangaroo rawhide left over that i used for the grip.
been using linen for strings lately and i really like the way it feels.
 she came in at about 72-73 pounds and then after more sanding and shooting seems to be settled in right at 70 which is just right for me.
anyways thanks for lookin guys.



(https://i.imgur.com/VykJwVP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/uACwWzT.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zdIRZft.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZU3cOer.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/QLhUB6W.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MksRp9X.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oymcSve.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hEdbC99.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TvvMf1Y.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vPMIK3G.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/170BKuQ.jpg)


The Tiller

(https://i.imgur.com/2kFsa9Q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oDwxDfT.jpg)
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bambule on March 06, 2021, 03:28:17 am
Nice work. Do you know which kind of buckthorn it is? Rhamnus cathartica maybe?
70#... it would be like a warbow for me :-)

Greets
Cord
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Jakesnyder on March 06, 2021, 07:13:47 am
Awesome. I love the turquoise inlays.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bownarra on March 06, 2021, 07:50:42 am
Nice bow :) She's bending :)
From what I can see of the wood it looks identical to prunus spinosa? What we in England call blackthorn.
Do you know the species of buckthorn? Latin name?
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: PatM on March 06, 2021, 08:00:23 am
Nice bow., Bryce.

 Buckthorn is Rhamnus, not prunus.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 06, 2021, 08:56:56 am
That is a nice one

Blackthorn is a member of the prunus species.  Buckthorn is Rhamnus cathartica and an invasive species in NA.  Blackthorn is reputed to be a good bow-wood
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: redhillwoods on March 06, 2021, 09:04:45 am
Impressive bow.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: RyanY on March 06, 2021, 09:32:58 am
Beautiful work. Those accents are awesome. That buckthorn is some impressive stuff.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: PaSteve on March 06, 2021, 09:55:24 am
Very nice bow. Excellent work!
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bjrogg on March 06, 2021, 12:24:25 pm
Nice stick Bryce.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Stickhead on March 06, 2021, 12:38:19 pm
That’s my kind of bow!  Short, stout and with a great profile.  I’ll have to try one based on that design.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: portlandfire on March 06, 2021, 01:02:26 pm
Beautiful job! 
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 06, 2021, 02:24:12 pm
Nice work. Do you know which kind of buckthorn it is? Rhamnus cathartica maybe?
70#... it would be like a warbow for me :-)

Greets
Cord

Nice bow :) She's bending :)
From what I can see of the wood it looks identical to prunus spinosa? What we in England call blackthorn.
Do you know the species of buckthorn? Latin name?

Yeah it’s just the common European Buckthorn. We don’t have it here where I’m at. It was sent to me from the eastern US.
The native buckthorn we have in my area, the Pacific Northwest. Is called Cascara. And it’s a bit different but also makes a nice bow. Has a lot less heartwood. But similar white sapwood and salmon colored heartwood.
The Cascara definitely has a stronger fruity/raspberry smell.

I post another reply with some tagged pics of the differences.



Thanks guys:) it’s definitely a fun one to shoot. Might have to have it with me in a Pronghorn blind soon😁
It’s always hard trying to decide what bow to hunt with.


I have one other stick of this good wood that I wanna make a nice longbow or ALB out of. Just can’t decide.

Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 06, 2021, 02:41:40 pm
better picture of the pink/salmon colored heartwood


(https://i.imgur.com/YYYzLD6.jpg)



(https://i.imgur.com/dnwrI0P.jpg)
*Cascara, C. Buckthorn, C. Sagrada, Bearberry, Chittem, Chitticum*
(https://i.imgur.com/9izdP35.jpg)


*European Buckthorn, Common Buckthorn*

(https://i.imgur.com/Ggbppql.jpg)
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: diliviu on March 06, 2021, 03:16:27 pm
Impressive bow!
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Allyn T on March 06, 2021, 03:26:26 pm
Wow I'm impressed, that is a short heavy bow and looks dead straight unbraced
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bradsmith2010 on March 06, 2021, 03:26:47 pm
beautiful, congrats,, :)
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Black Moshannon on March 06, 2021, 08:23:00 pm
Can’t believe you got that weight out of a piece of wood that small and short with that little string follow. Makes me believe my bow dreams are possible
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Morgan on March 06, 2021, 09:46:49 pm
Very good job on that bow, I like it a lot! That wood is quite pretty, can’t say I remember ever seeing it before.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 06, 2021, 10:16:04 pm
Can’t believe you got that weight out of a piece of wood that small and short with that little string follow. Makes me believe my bow dreams are possible
Wow I'm impressed, that is a short heavy bow and looks dead straight unbraced

  This stave was heat-treated pretty thoroughly with some full body reflex, dont let that unbraced pic fool yah she wasnt that way when i started the final tiller  ;D
i used to think that 70 pounds was quite heavy as well. but now its just my normal shooting weight. i like how flat some tapered fir shafts fly out of a good #70+ Bow. You'd be surprised at how much something like an extra 1/16" thickness can add as far as poundage and stable weight distribution. plus this wood is very elastic and lent itself well to what i was asking of it. which is always nice :)



Very good job on that bow, I like it a lot! That wood is quite pretty, can’t say I remember ever seeing it before.

  We dont have it where i live. as far as i know the eastern boys have it as an invasive and of course the European boys.
i cant remember how i got this one. but i liked it so much i asked around and had to pull some favors string to get another stave, to which Mr. Arnold came through. much appreciated!

 Cody Wright (misslemaster) was really the one who was pretty prolific with this wood and definitely made an impact on the community with this wood and his artisan bowyer skills.


 thanks guys much appreciated. havent posted a bow it what feels like forever. cheers!


    Bryce
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bownarra on March 07, 2021, 02:52:38 am
https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/8765/Hippophae-rhamnoides/Details

I ask because this is what we call buckthorn. The berries make an amazing drink or pies etc. Stacked  with vitamin C. But I doubt you could get a bow out of it :)
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bambule on March 07, 2021, 03:15:22 am
Yeah, that was my first thought - sea buckthorn. But it is really hard to get a piece of that kind of wood for a bow - it‘s more a shrub.
But the common buckthorn is a tree which grows massive here in my area - it‘s left and right to the railroad.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: diliviu on March 07, 2021, 04:41:44 am
Not sea buckthorn, for sure. It's funny that leaves and fruits aren't far from cornus sanguinea (that is also really good for bows).
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: BoltBows on March 07, 2021, 06:01:40 am
Great work Bryce.
Nice to see a well executed bow out of a wood you don't see every day!
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: PatM on March 07, 2021, 09:01:53 am
https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/8765/Hippophae-rhamnoides/Details

I ask because this is what we call buckthorn. The berries make an amazing drink or pies etc. Stacked  with vitamin C. But I doubt you could get a bow out of it :)

 You should try making a pie with the other kind.  ;)
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 08, 2021, 02:39:04 am
Great work Bryce.
Nice to see a well executed bow out of a wood you don't see every day!

  Thank you:D

https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/8765/Hippophae-rhamnoides/Details

I ask because this is what we call buckthorn. The berries make an amazing drink or pies etc. Stacked  with vitamin C. But I doubt you could get a bow out of it :)
Yeah, that was my first thought - sea buckthorn. But it is really hard to get a piece of that kind of wood for a bow - it‘s more a shrub.
But the common buckthorn is a tree which grows massive here in my area - it‘s left and right to the railroad.


 oh yeah quite different it seems. who knows maybe you can find two larger ones and get a set of billets?




https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/8765/Hippophae-rhamnoides/Details

I ask because this is what we call buckthorn. The berries make an amazing drink or pies etc. Stacked  with vitamin C. But I doubt you could get a bow out of it :)

 You should try making a pie with the other kind.  ;)


   Hahahahahahahaha yeah and end up with a fecal Jackson Pollock bathroom lol

 We harvest a handful or two every year and dry them into a type Cascara raisin. works really nice for the nieces and nephews when they get a little.....umm... backed up lol


  Bryce
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: bownarra on March 08, 2021, 02:44:18 am
I hear you!
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Del the cat on March 08, 2021, 05:04:29 am
Woo 70# @ 27" nice :) But that's punchy.
I'd like to know how far that would throw a flight arrow :)
Great work
Del
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 08, 2021, 03:10:01 pm
Woo 70# @ 27" nice :) But that's punchy.
I'd like to know how far that would throw a flight arrow :)
Great work
Del

  oh that would be something to test out. unfortunately all my flight arrows have been pretty well wrecked lol the only one i have that in ideal shape is a Keasey arrow i mix in with em to try and spread the good juju to my other arras lol

might be worth making up a testing batch though and head out to the Alvord when the windy season dies off down there.

maybe see about making a video


  Bryce
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: simk on March 16, 2021, 04:32:36 am
wow, a gem. impressive and beautiful!  (-S
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: backtowood B2W on March 18, 2021, 04:02:36 am
very nice bow. So narrow for such a heavy bow.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: vinemaplebows on March 18, 2021, 01:59:07 pm
Nice work. Do you know which kind of buckthorn it is? Rhamnus cathartica maybe?
70#... it would be like a warbow for me :-)

Greets
Cord

Nice bow :) She's bending :)
From what I can see of the wood it looks identical to prunus spinosa? What we in England call blackthorn.
Do you know the species of buckthorn? Latin name?

Yeah it’s just the common European Buckthorn. We don’t have it here where I’m at. It was sent to me from the eastern US.
The native buckthorn we have in my area, the Pacific Northwest. Is called Cascara. And it’s a bit different but also makes a nice bow. Has a lot less heartwood. But similar white sapwood and salmon colored heartwood.
The Cascara definitely has a stronger fruity/raspberry smell.

I post another reply with some tagged pics of the differences.



Thanks guys:) it’s definitely a fun one to shoot. Might have to have it with me in a Pronghorn blind soon😁
It’s always hard trying to decide what bow to hunt with.


I have one other stick of this good wood that I wanna make a nice longbow or ALB out of. Just can’t decide.

Bryce,
                   Very interested in the difference between the 2 wo0ods, can you elaborate a bit more? Cascara I have worked with a lot was looking for specific differences. Thanks.


VMB
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Parnell on March 18, 2021, 02:31:48 pm
Bow turned out really beautifully, Bryce.  Great tiller and simple details.

I recall Cody was in N IL.  I lived there for awhile and would work clearing that stuff out for environmental conservation efforts.  Buckthorn was EVERYWHERE!
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 22, 2021, 11:33:57 pm
Hey! Thank you so much. Appreciate the kind words:)


Bow turned out really beautifully, Bryce.  Great tiller and simple details.

I recall Cody was in N IL.  I lived there for awhile and would work clearing that stuff out for environmental conservation efforts.  Buckthorn was EVERYWHERE!

Oh man! Shoulda snagged that stuff up!



Nice work. Do you know which kind of buckthorn it is? Rhamnus cathartica maybe?
70#... it would be like a warbow for me :-)

Greets
Cord

Nice bow :) She's bending :)
From what I can see of the wood it looks identical to prunus spinosa? What we in England call blackthorn.
Do you know the species of buckthorn? Latin name?

Yeah it’s just the common European Buckthorn. We don’t have it here where I’m at. It was sent to me from the eastern US.
The native buckthorn we have in my area, the Pacific Northwest. Is called Cascara. And it’s a bit different but also makes a nice bow. Has a lot less heartwood. But similar white sapwood and salmon colored heartwood.
The Cascara definitely has a stronger fruity/raspberry smell.

I post another reply with some tagged pics of the differences.



Thanks guys:) it’s definitely a fun one to shoot. Might have to have it with me in a Pronghorn blind soon😁
It’s always hard trying to decide what bow to hunt with.


I have one other stick of this good wood that I wanna make a nice longbow or ALB out of. Just can’t decide.

Bryce,
                   Very interested in the difference between the 2 wo0ods, can you elaborate a bit more? Cascara I have worked with a lot was looking for specific differences. Thanks.


VMB


Yeah for sure. Our Cascara is a lot lighter, less dense, the heart:sapwood ratios are pretty different. With fruit woods I like a solid amount of sapwood, like a 50:50 with the heart if I can get it. But seems I can’t really get that with Cascara Bc it usually has a thick sapwood layer, I’ve reduced that and backed it and had good shooters, with less set.
Whereas the Buckthorn is a bit more dense and there is a lot more heartwood and more elastic, definitely better in compression than our Cascara. Through the tillering and shooting, the buckthorn never flinched, felt like I could touch nocks. I pulled out past the intended draw length a few times, and still went back to sitting flat after a few minutes at rest. It’s like a slowed down version of plum.
I would say Cascara is probably better tension wood.
And of course the stave wasn’t flat to be gone with. I heat treated about 1.25” of reflex through the whole of the stave. Usually I’ll do about 2” but I wasn’t sure about putting to much with this shorter stave.
I have one more piece of the stuff I want to make a ALB out of, I have a feeling buckthorn will do really well with that D* cross section.


Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Santanasaur on March 24, 2021, 09:10:44 am
Wow, incredible  execution. It was bold to even attempt this bow! I’m very keen to try buckthorn now. Got some nice staves on the last bow wood harvest but otherwise it’s always spiraled too much on me to actually use.
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: vinemaplebows on March 24, 2021, 01:53:30 pm
Bryce,

               Thanks for the reply, was wondering for some years the differences. I have decrowned Cascara several times and prefer  more heartwood as well. I am rather shocked you give Cascara any credit as a tension wood. Cascara one nick on the back and boom! I always tell people to burnish the heck out of Cascara or back it with something, especially if they have never worked with it. I prefer to cut larger trees, for more heartwood, not that smaller trees don't make bows.

VMB
Title: Re: European Buckthorn 56" Shorty #70@27"
Post by: Bryce on March 24, 2021, 07:44:49 pm
Bryce,

               Thanks for the reply, was wondering for some years the differences. I have decrowned Cascara several times and prefer  more heartwood as well. I am rather shocked you give Cascara any credit as a tension wood. Cascara one nick on the back and boom! I always tell people to burnish the heck out of Cascara or back it with something, especially if they have never worked with it. I prefer to cut larger trees, for more heartwood, not that smaller trees don't make bows.

VMB

Oh well maybe that’s it, mine have all been natural backs. From basically larger saplings.