Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: RyanY on February 26, 2021, 10:33:01 am
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I started this one a few days ago and have been posting progress to the board bow FB group so I thought I would post it here as well.
I had an off-cut of red oak from a different bow that didn't have totally perfect grain. I thought I would chase a ring to see how it goes.
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After chasing a ring there is still some flat surface on the back at one end where the board was planed. The design will be 60" ntn, symmetrical, 3" handle section with long "fades" 6" from there and then a straight taper to 1/4" nocks. I started the handle at 1 1/4" wide, widest part of the limb is 1 5/8" wide.
Got the profile roughed out. Cut away most of the bulk with the bandsaw. I kept the board flat on the belly while cutting but the back was angled. One side can be cut close to the line but the other side needs to be cut further away so I didn’t cut into the belly. I drew lines at the tip to make sure I knew which side was which. Use a spokeshave to get closer to the line. Only one small section had tear out so grain is pretty straight overall. I use a square to make sure the edges are square to the back. The back is crowned or dipped in some spots so I just make sure the square is the same distance from each edge on the back. Should be easy to tiller with the pyramid outer limbs.
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I would think that will make a pretty good bow. I'm curious to see how it comes out. :BB
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Used a block plane to true up the edges to the line. I marked out the back growth ring to see where it ran along the edge. On one limb tip the growth ring leaves the back of the bow where the board was sawn. This is technically runout IMO so we’ll see if it holds or decides to break there. I am adding an extra long, 3" overlay to even out the tip. I may also trap the back as a way of making the back a higher percentage of the single growth ring if that makes sense. The handle area was 5/8” on one side and 3/4” on the other. I chamfer the taller edge so they meet in the middle to leave as much thickness as possible while keeping it even on both sides. Adding the overlays early since I decided to start with narrow tips. Using red oak from the off cuts. Thickness is 5/8” at the handle tapering to 7/16” at the widest point and stays 7/16” to the tips.
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Thanks Pat! We'll see. I'm doing a bit of experimenting with Trapping and am going to see how it handles a decent amount of reflex with heat treating.
Nocks glued on and shaped up enough to hold a string.
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Cut away that initial thickness taper as evenly as possible with the drawknife/spokeshave. Put it on the long string once before bracing to a bit over 4”. About 30#@16”. Got the tiller where I wanted it before trapping and ended up about 30#@17.5”. Pics are arranged in order. Mass at floor tiller is 16.1oz, so plenty of mass for a moderately heavy bow. After tillering the mass is 15.35oz. MC is around 7%.
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Tillering pics in order. Tips are still a bit stiff. Right side has a mild hump mid limb with mild reflex in the outer limb so I'm okay with a bit of tip stiffness for now at least on that limb.
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Trapped the back to 60% the total width and 1/4" deep from the back. Handle is not quite as narrow or deep for the trapped portion for comfort and keeping strength and thickness there. Mass after trapping is 13.95 so it'll be interesting to see how much draw weight it lost when I can get back to it.
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Looks good, Ryan. Jawge
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Looks great. Thanks for posting the photos! Very interesting build
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Wonderful work. Doing such a meticulous job with a common material shows love and dedication rarely seen. Such qualities will make one go a long way to become one of the best. Thanks.
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Thanks guys. Hopefully it turns out but I know there are imperfections that couldn’t be avoided. Let’s see how far I can push it! Going for 35#@28” but will possibly go lower, give it a good heat treating with some reflex and tiller just enough to get it even and keep it wherever it ends up.
Here is a pic of it braced and drawn to the same distance after trapping. Pulling 26# so about 4# loss with 1.4oz of mass. Seems like a good ratio given Steve’s mass principle equates 1oz to 5# draw weight. Maybe it doesn’t apply with such a short draw. I have no more excuses for those stiff tips now. (lol) Time to get it tillered out.
Pics are appearing upside down to me and I’m not sure why...
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Continuing the tillering process for my red oak board to stave bow. I start out trying to get the tiller even at the same draw length I’ve pulled to before which means the bow will lose weight before drawing further. I finally got it evened up and it was 25#@18” so a loss of about 5lbs. (First few pics) From there it’s a matter of removing wood evenly to get to my draw length. In the process the limbs tend to go back and forth for which is stronger or weaker. I measure this at brace height and mark the limb before removing wood with my card scraper. Around 22” draw, I rounded the belly side of the handle, and true up the lines of the whole bow’s profile to get it as straight and even as possible. Decided to stop at 31#@25” draw for now. I may consider tillering out a bit further before heat treating but the limbs are pretty even. Finished at about 3/4” set and just under 12oz mass. A bit more set than I would have liked but it’ll hopefully get taken out with the heat treating.
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Chamfering the handle. This process does not have to be so precise but I like the symmetry. Used a spokeshave and knocked the edges down with some 120 grit sandpaper.
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Unbraced, braced, and draw at 31#@25”. I will probably end up going for 27” draw as I’m learning 28” seems a bit long for me. Maybe a slightly asymmetry in the bend but fairly even overall. Still learning how to tiller these bendy handle bows with long fades. Trying to use monitoring the set as a guide.
Pics are still flipping around on me for some reason. Sorry! :o
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Tried to even out the tiller a bit more. Got it to just over 31#@27". Weight before heat treating. Made a new form with 2.5" of reflex. I cut the form to 1" wide to prevent the heat from bouncing back against the sides of the limb. Pictured is the jig I use. It's not the most stable but it works. Keeps the heat gun my desired distance of 4" from the belly. I tried to get a picture of the color I go for.
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More pics.
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Finished heat treating tonight. Normally I would go all the way to the tips but since I did overlays on this one early I avoided getting too close. We'll see if the glue joint is impacted at all. The form I used had 2.5" of reflex and the bow bounced back to 2". I generally err on the safe side of waiting at least a few days to start bending again. Being on the thinner side AND trapped, I definitely don't want to risk the back being too dry.
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Nice buildalong. Try to wrap Aluminiumfoil around your caul to avoid the back from the heat. I did that in the past and I never had a scorched back after that. The Reflexion works.
Greets Cord
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Nice buildalong. Try to wrap Aluminiumfoil around your caul to avoid the back from the heat. I did that in the past and I never had a scorched back after that. The Reflexion works.
Greets Cord
I’ve always felt like it would reflect the heat more but I’ll have to give it a shot!
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Strung up the red oak board -> stave bow and immediately noticed the tips were considerably weaker than prior to heat treating. Not even worth tugging on the string at this point! I am going to go over the weaker areas again with the heat gun to make sure they are well heat treated.
A couple thoughts on why this happened. I started heating the bow from the handle towards the tips. It takes a while for the heat gun to heat up so the process speeds up over time. There's also less mass the further out I go on the limb so it may take less time for the limb to achieve the same color but maybe not stiffen the wood. The difference in width and thickness along the limb may mean that heat treating doesn't stiffen the whole limb proportionally to keep the same tiller shape for this bow. The tips are quite thin at 1/4" wide. I will be risking compromising the glue joint of the tip overlays to make sure I heat up the tips. My understanding of PVA glues is that they can break down if heated too much but if it doesn't get to that point then it can maintain its strength when it cools. Hopefully not compromised enough to make it fail. We shall find out!
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After the second round of heat treating the tips were a bit stiffer. To my eyes one still looks a bit weak but it doesn't appear to be taking set or really whipping around so time to finish tillering. The bend appeared more stiff in the inner limbs than I wanted and was asymmetrical to start. Got it close in the end. Not perfect but didn't want to go too low for draw weight. Ended up at 33#@27". Started with just under 2" of reflex and it goes back to 1.25" just after unstringing. Next I will finish shaping the nocks and sand it down to start the finishing process.
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looking good :)
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I bet it'll shoot nicely!
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I think the only time I scorched the back of a bow was when I used aluminum foil to prevent scorching the back.
Nice work on the build along Ryan. :OK
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Thanks guys. It'll be interesting to see how it shoots. I don't have arrows this light to test at 10gpp but I'll try and check with some heavier arrows.
Back to work on this one. Shaping the tips to get it finished up. Going for a simple rounded shape with a taper at the tip to match the trapping on the back. I mark out the shape I want to guide wood removal and help keep it even. I use a piece of 80 grit sanding belt on a stick for wood removal (blurry pic). I don't always draw out my tips but wanted to show what I was going for on paper.
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I string up the bow to see where the string lies so I can taper the belly side a bit as well to make it so the string isn't just rubbing against the edge of the belly. Finished tip shape. Just something simple. I like to make sure the apex of the curve is where the overlay meets so there's not a lot of pressure against just the overlay if I set the bow down on the tip. Started changing the shape of my tips after I had a few pop off from sticking out past the limb wood.
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Just need to sand it down and start the finishing process. Since this bow is involving a bit of experimenting I thought I would try that steel wool and vinegar stain and see if I like it. I'll probably finish the bow with boiled linseed oil and paste wax to keep it simple and do some kind of rope handle wrap.
Took a pic of the tip with a pencil for scale to show that they're pretty narrow. The outer limbs are surprisingly thin too. Probably a result of being a bit too elliptical in the tiller shape. Should make for good performance though if it holds up.
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I like the vinegar, especially because your can make it darker or lighter depending on soak time. Question about the trapped back, do you normally not trap all the way through so it's almost like shaping a backing or can you trap it all the way to belly side
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Depends on what I’m going for but I never trap all the way to the belly or as you tiller the width of the bow will change. I knew that for this length bow at my desired draw length the limbs would end up about 3/8” thick so I trapped 1/4” down from the back leaving about 1/8” of edge at the end.
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Looks good Ryan, thanks for taking us along. :)
Pappy
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Nice build along :OK
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Thanks Pappy and Marc. Finally getting into a good flow of how to easily post pictures.
Decided to shoot it in to make sure it doesn't blow up in my face! Notice the safety glasses. ;D Tested the vinegar and steel wool stain on a scrap piece and figured the color was okay. A carpenter I follow on instagram has posted some beautiful work with that stain and I know he gets it pretty dark. I decided to really soak the bow with the stain to get it as dark as possible. Super stoked with the color and how dark it got! Interesting finish because it takes a bit of time to darken after its applied. Will now wait a day or two for it to dry out before adding linseed oil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAYurDyKm0A
(video is not monetized)
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How long did you soak the steel wool?
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Kept it in there since the last time I posted so about 4 days. It’s remarkable how the vinegar is still somewhat clear and how much it darkens the wood. Fun stuff!
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Yeah it reacts with the tannins it's nuts how much it works.
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Applying boiled linseed oil (BLO) for the finish for this bow. After letting the vinegar stain dry for a day it has a grey milk paint 'esque look to it which is kind of cool. For a BLO finish, I'm of the mindset that since it's a penetrating finish, I want to get as much into the wood as possible. I mix in a bit of mineral spirits to thin out the BLO. I apply with a shop towel till it seems like it can't soak in anymore, wait about 20min, then reapply and repeat till the wood no longer appears to be absorbing the BLO. The pictures are in order and show the look after the first application and after waiting. After the last application I wipe the bow down with a shop towel. I always make sure to dispose of my BLO soaked towels in a tin just in case. Over the next few days I'll continue to check on the bow and wipe it down periodically. In my experience with red oak, the ring porous early wood likes to release some of the finish/stain which needs to be wiped away. I think I had about 2tbsp of finish to start and used about 3/4 of that on the bow, minus what the towel soaked up.
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Pic 1: First application
Pic 2: After waiting for oil to soak in. Notice more of a satiny look to the wood.
Pic 4: Finish after last application and wiping down with a shop towel.
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Finally finished up this one. Sorry for not taking many pictures of the last bits of the finishing process. A bit too much experimenting and not enough motivation. After the linseed oil dried I wrapped the handle in some jute twine. If I recall this is the super cheap stuff from the grocery store. I died it with black rit dye I had on hand to match the color of the bow. It's more loose than I wanted to we'll see how it holds up. I applied paste wax to the bow and the handle wrap.
The bow is 60"ntn and 32#@27". It is 11.7oz in weight and retains about 1" of reflex. I was surprised to see that the tips didn't look whip ended at all. In fact it appears to be a fairly circular tiller. Bottom limb looks a bit stiffer but this will probably even out over time. If I had to do anything differently I would have been more careful with thinning out the tips and heat treated it a bit earlier in the process. I love how the vinegar stain turned out with hues of red coming through. Will definitely be using that again. Hope you learned something from this one. Thanks for looking!
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Few more.
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Few more.
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Last couple.
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Thanks for the build along!
This bow turned out very nice!
I didn't use steelwool vinegar for a long time, def. have to try again
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Well done!!
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Thanks guys. It was a fun little build. Consistently impressed with red oak’s strength in tension.