Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Fox on February 10, 2021, 09:18:34 pm

Title: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 10, 2021, 09:18:34 pm
just wrecked my ERC stave I was going to sinew back.... boy im on a Role  (lol)

so now im not sure what to use my sinew for, I might be able to get some more erc but am not really sure if thats the best wood to use....
the choices I have are..... hickory, elm, locust, walnut, erc, birch, and beach,
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Allyn T on February 10, 2021, 09:20:37 pm
How did you wreck it?
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 10, 2021, 09:31:24 pm
hickory elm or locust , depending on what is the best stave,,
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 10, 2021, 10:39:00 pm
okay brad... maybe ill go hickory... thats my best stave. ally I stupidly tried to split off the belly of the stave and being that its weak as heck cedar it just ran off the wrong direction leaving a 50" piece. I know I could still use it as a 50" stave but thats too short for what I want to do, and I only have enough sinew for 1 bow.
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 10, 2021, 10:46:55 pm
so what is your thoughts on the sinew erc combo though? I could probably get more erc.... but im thinking it may not be reliable....
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 10, 2021, 11:10:37 pm
I dont have experience with erc, Im sure someone gonna chime in, that does,,
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Zugul on February 11, 2021, 03:50:20 am
bradsmith2010: locust? Isn't it too weak in compression? (Just asking, it's not my intenction to hijack the discussion)
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: bownarra on February 11, 2021, 04:01:20 am
bradsmith2010: locust? Isn't it too weak in compression? (Just asking, it's not my intenction to hijack the discussion)

No it works really well with sinew.
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Tom Dulaney on February 11, 2021, 05:54:06 am
ERC Is better than all the woods mentioned here.


I can get you a wide, straight grained,  knotless juniper stave if you're willing to wait a little while and can pay shipping from central USA. It will probably be 35-45 inches long. I have abundant source old growth Junipers at my disposal, and it' really easy to harvest. Not sure how much shipping is gonna cost.
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 11, 2021, 10:45:17 am
sinew and cedar are like peas and carrots brother IMO.. tension of cedar is not that great but compression is very impressive.. that's when sinew shines best on woods low in tension.. Ive built an all sapwood cedar bow sinewed that has a lil heartwood on handle only. and she is a screamer.. ultra light in hand.. I got another stave of cedar Im going to recurve and sinew later.. maybe this summer.. really don't think any other wood is as compatible to sinew than easterner red cedar.. well let's say I haven't built one yet.. I have a sinew black locust , couple of osage ( really didn't need the sinew IMO) and tried hickory.. well lesson learned on hickory and sinew down south are like peas and baked beans.. just do not go well together... I literally killed my hickory because of the sinew.. it wouldn't dry fast enough I didn't have the patience nor knowledge of how to treat hickory in a high humidity area .. could of hot boxed it I guess but lesson learned.. I'll never sinew a hickory bow again... haha... when I sinew a bow now..  I long string it about 6 inches short on draw length about 10 lbs off desired draw weight then flip the tips if not going to recurve.. I add I run my sinew to base of curves because I make only static recurves on a self bow, ..I size the back with hide glue and let it get tacky. I soak my sinew in hide glue and wring it out before applying to the back then I apply the sinew ( i am a big fan of using hide glue on sinew .. its once again like peas and carrots.. (hide glue sets slowly and allows the sinew to perform its best by shrinking slowly and drying slowly... its well worth the effort to get the best bag for your hard work on a sinew job) I then hang a 25 lb weight from handle and suspend the tips on two chairs..usually two courses staggered like bricks with a fill in course to make a smooth back.. I set it up in my basement and leave for 3 to four months of dry time.. it will hold all the reflex from the 25 lb weight.. however I loss all but about 1 inch in final tillering ..but that bow is a shooter very nice.. just typing about it has me wanting to get that other stave under way... gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Pat B on February 11, 2021, 10:56:02 am
Of the woods you mentioned I go with locust, elm then maybe hickory. If you live in a dry environment I'd put hickory first but if you have to deal with humidity, even for part of the year hickory would be down the line.
 Years back I built a replica of Jay Massey's Medicine Bow, sinew backed hickory with a rawhide covering. When I built it it pulled 56#@26". By mid summer, in our high summertime humidity it was pulling 45#@26". I sent it out to Little John(Kenneth) in Colorado for him to use as a horse bow and in a month it was up to 65#.
 Hickory, sinew/hide glue and rawhide are all very hygroscopic, meaning they readily take on and release moisture from the atmosphere.
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 12:39:01 pm
Tom thanks generous offer, but I have a few short ERC staves already.....

Gut, I think you’ve convinced me to go cedar... my last two attempts with cedar I haven’t made it to the sinew part  :fp the first try I tried to recurve it, steamed it for an hour, and then it broke when I recurved it..... gut what dimension is that bow your talking of ? :)


Pat, yeah that was my worry with hickory. I live in va and in summer it’s usually 80%
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 11, 2021, 01:22:28 pm
first off I boil in my recurves.. just get water boiling good before you set timer.. 15 minutes per 1/4 of thickness and bend it fast out of water and put a strip of sheet metal on belly side to prevent splinters and  you should not have a problem.. my cedar bow is 58" 4 inch handle 1 1/2 fades.. going off memory .. I believe it is 1 3/4 wide out of fade to about 1 1/4 mid to 1/2 tips.. can measure tonight but I think thats what I did.. I flipped the tips on her.. have pics but I can not post here .. well dang it posted
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 01:35:01 pm
Thanks for the dimensions.... thats nice lookin.... the sapwood on my stave is kinda messed up, is heartwood okay to use ?

Oh I should mention the log was sitting in a basement for somewhere around 100 years :) kept dry
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: JW_Halverson on February 11, 2021, 02:00:37 pm
I have a couple very well cured out hickory staves and I'd be willing to part with one, if that interests you. All I need is an address, nothing in return but your promise to post pics as you go.
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 02:03:11 pm
Thanks JW...  that’s a very kind offer. I have a pretty good pile of hickory at the moment though, here in va it’s everywhere :D
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: JW_Halverson on February 11, 2021, 02:24:32 pm
Thanks JW...  that’s a very kind offer. I have a pretty good pile of hickory at the moment though, here in va it’s everywhere :D

Around here it is in the hardware store. In axe handles!
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 11, 2021, 02:28:14 pm
I backed a heartwood cedar bow backed with maple one time.. perry reflexed it..had it tilled to 20" and went to brace.  the bow exploded violently... ended up being a slight pin knot on backing and that is where she blew in tension..was my first maple backing and I am not a fan now..haha..I'd rather back with boo over maple on cedar.. when cedar goes it goes usually with no warning and violent.. I still have half of that bow.. one day I may have a match for it so I kept it...as far as backing heartwood I see no reason it shouldn't work fine..even better if you can get it to one ring but I've never attempted to chase cedar ,the bow that blew was all heartwood board clean of knots...and it was beautiful... was holding almost all the reflex I put in... I got an ipe bboo backed that when I ws first building bow did a perry reflex on and the tips were just a slight bit out of adjustment.. Ipe doesn't dry heat bend to well at all and my DA attempted to heat it while strung to shift the limb a lil towards what I needed to get the string to bisect the handle.. at one point I started watching the bow start to slowly collapse on me but it was too late... delam and pow gone... I have the other half of that bow too.. but ipe is way stronger than cedar so they won't go together too well...or I would of tried to splice them .. I'll wait.. I got another ipe board and boo backing just waiting to be pushed to the limit again...haha... wished I had another cedar board... I would love to boo back it... gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 02:41:51 pm
Haha good story’s of some bow failures there gut.... my only problem for me is that the erc stave I might be able to get isn’t mine ;D it’s my friends, Her stave is about 4” wide so hopefully I can convince her to split it with me  ;D
 Not going to split it though I’m thinking sawing would be safer for the stave... she would not be happy if I wrecked her half too :)
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 11, 2021, 02:46:14 pm
I was gonna say the same thing.. too risky to split..but it shows how the grain runs when you do... if both sides of stave look fairly straight and you can see how the grain is running I'd saw it.. gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 02:48:13 pm
If I recall correctly, the stave is pipe straight...
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on February 11, 2021, 03:01:56 pm
One of my dreams is to build a juniper/sinew recurve.  So I always read these stories with interest.  :)

T
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 11, 2021, 03:14:54 pm
you guys got my blood boiling again on my ERC stave...  its wide too.. about 8 inches or better.. has one knot on bottom.. on the side of stave.. its tall too probably 80"..dang..I might have to peel some bark off tonight... gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 03:22:08 pm
that sounds like a sweet stave... maybe ill wait to see what you do  ;D
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Allyn T on February 11, 2021, 08:22:44 pm
I will say the stave I sent Brad and the one I just split myself were both dead straight but when they were split smaller they had some wave to them. I have an erc stave I'm gonna try to use the 1/4 split side as back and 3 others still whole staves that are about 80" long
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 11, 2021, 08:46:41 pm
One more question gut..... how many layers of sinew did you use ?

Edit: just reread one of your answers and saw you said 2 coats... I’m thinking I may do 3 and flip the tips,, still to nervous to do a full recurve after the last one.
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 12, 2021, 11:28:55 am
yes I do two and fill in any spots with a 3rd to try to get a smooth back..when I process my sinew I will end up with a variety of lengths.. I put all matching lengths together so while I'm laying it down I can grab the certain size I need..   gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Russ on February 12, 2021, 12:51:42 pm
you guys got my blood boiling again on my ERC stave...  its wide too.. about 8 inches or better.. has one knot on bottom.. on the side of stave.. its tall too probably 80"..dang..I might have to peel some bark off tonight... gut

you gonna keep us updated?  ;D (-P
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 12, 2021, 01:26:40 pm
haha... I am finishing a osage shorty bow first.. however I might go ahead and reduce one down and recurve it and let it start drying... putting the osage on hold.. I'll keep you guys posted .. as far as pics.. having a hard tme posting them here.. so do some won't.. its weird.. I need to check my sinew stash also.. I know I got plenty of backstraps but I like leg tendon for bow backing.. gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 12, 2021, 01:39:57 pm
Yes I’ll post picks Russell.... I have got some fairly short sinew, like 5” pieces that I can’t do much with... can I use some of that for backing?
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: gutpile on February 12, 2021, 01:45:56 pm
that is my favorite sinew to back with leg tendon.. so the answer is most definitely... feel free to ship me all you don't want lol.... gut
Title: Re: #1 sinew wood combo...
Post by: Fox on February 12, 2021, 01:54:46 pm
that is my favorite sinew to back with leg tendon.. so the answer is most definitely... feel free to ship me all you don't want lol.... gut

Okay great  ;)