Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: The beginner bowyer on December 10, 2020, 03:01:30 pm

Title: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: The beginner bowyer on December 10, 2020, 03:01:30 pm
Hello everyone,

I am new to this group and was wondering if I could get some advice, I am very limited on material due to my location being a small town I dont have access to a lot of options when it comes to wood. one option I have is Ash is this a wood you would recommend? I am also having issues finding information on bow backings iv heard fiberglass drywall tape works but i dont really like the look of it so input on affordable backings would be much appreciated.

thank you   
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Digital Caveman on December 10, 2020, 03:57:29 pm
Large dog chews have good rawhide, though you'll probably have to sand it down.  From what I've read, I think a bow out of almost any wood will work in the very driest environments with a rawhide backing if the bow is designed right. 
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: capitainepatenaude on December 10, 2020, 04:08:30 pm
Hello,


Ash is good bow wood most of the time. If you have bad ash (which is light, tight ringed and somewhat porous), you have to make it longer and larger. If you are working from board, get straight grained board (red oak, ash, hickory). Just take the heaviest you can find. If the grain is perfectly straight you won't need to back your bow. Hickory should be your first choice when selecting a board

I've made bows from imperfect red oak boards and backed them with beautiful paper. They were 68 inches long, 30-40 lb at 27'' and are still alive today. No need to use dry-wall tape and make an ugly bow. I must add that if you have a board with many runnouts, their's no light backing that could save your bow on the long run.

In addition to paper and dry-wall tape, you could use rawhide (which you can order from ebay) and sinew. You can find those easily if you know hunters or if you have a butcher specialised in wild game near your home. You can alson look on ebay.

Do you have access to trees or only to boards? If you have access to trees, you won't need any backing at all.

Have fun
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: ibex on December 10, 2020, 04:15:17 pm
Jared hung out in my garage building bows when he was a kid. Now he's full grown with a family and still at it. You're asking the right group Jared! Steve
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Del the cat on December 10, 2020, 04:34:31 pm
Don't use fibreglass drywall tape. There are plenty of natural alternatives linen or silk cloth, canvas. Charity shops may be a good source of material in the form of shirts or ties... many years ago I bought my wife a real nice pair of silk pyjamas >:D... she never wore them tho'  :(... maybe I should use 'em as a bow backing?  >:D ;D O:)
Del
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 10, 2020, 05:38:04 pm
Ash is a good bow wood. I've used linen, silk, and burlap as good inexpensive backings.
More on my site.
Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: bjrogg on December 10, 2020, 05:58:39 pm
Don't use fibreglass drywall tape. There are plenty of natural alternatives linen or silk cloth, canvas. Charity shops may be a good source of material in the form of shirts or ties... many years ago I bought my wife a real nice pair of silk pyjamas >:D... she never wore them tho'  :(... maybe I should use 'em as a bow backing?  >:D ;D O:)
Del


I’d like to see that bow Mr.Cat.

All very good advice. I’ve heard of guys using wheelbarrow handles, axe handles sledge hammer handles.

Welcome to PA

Bjrogg
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Morgan on December 10, 2020, 07:04:49 pm
The most affordable is free. Get with tree service people, farmers, power company line clearing crew etc. If there are any hardwood trees that grow naturally in your area, one of those should provide a stave source even if it is limited. If you have hardwood growing locally, do a search on Craigslist or Facebook for sawmill service. There may be a permanent or portable sawmill operating in your general area, if so you could get boards fresh cut off the mill and know they are handled properly from that point on.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Woody roberts on December 10, 2020, 08:17:17 pm
Can you tell us the general area where you are?
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: The beginner bowyer on December 10, 2020, 09:16:17 pm
Souther utah
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Pat B on December 10, 2020, 10:19:38 pm
Welcome Jared. Like said above, silk, linen both make a good backing and both can be bought cheap at a thrift store. Men's neck ties, usually a dollar or 2 at a thrift shop gives you design and protection. Brown grocery bag paper works pretty good too. It's pretty cheap or free. I've never used burlap but if George says it works I would believe him. Air is the cheapest backing for a stave bow with a good, clean back.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: scp on December 10, 2020, 11:56:34 pm
Get a 1"x2"x8' hardwood board. Do not cut it short. Leave the one feet in the middle alone. Narrow the actual width of 1.5 inch in the middle to 1/2 inch at the tips. String it and see how it bends. If worried about breaking it, just use epoxy to glue any fabric on the back. Once you learn to see how it bends, you will be able to tiller it successfully. I would just use a carbide scraper on the belly. It would be rather difficult to fail to make a shootable bow this way. The longer, the safer. But by and by, you will cut it to around 72 inch long. If still concerned, start with a 1"x3"x8' board. It will just take much longer unless you reduce the thickness of working limbs  to 1/2 inch first. If you can find a quarter-sawn hickory or osage board, it would almost impossible to to fail. Good luck. 
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: bownarra on December 11, 2020, 12:55:38 am
Get a 1"x2"x8' hardwood board. Do not cut it short. Leave the one feet in the middle alone. Narrow the actual width of 1.5 inch in the middle to 1/2 inch at the tips. String it and see how it bends. If worried about breaking it, just use epoxy to glue any fabric on the back. Once you learn to see how it bends, you will be able to tiller it successfully. I would just use a carbide scraper on the belly. It would be rather difficult to fail to make a shootable bow this way. The longer, the safer. But by and by, you will cut it to around 72 inch long. If still concerned, start with a 1"x3"x8' board. It will just take much longer unless you reduce the thickness of working limbs  to 1/2 inch first. If you can find a quarter-sawn hickory or osage board, it would almost impossible to to fail. Good luck.

It would bend too much in the middle? No need to make a bow over 68 inch for a standard drawlength.

Get yourself a copy of the Traditional Bowyers Bible and follow the 'your first bow' chapter. A basic pyramid design is the simplest style to make.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: scp on December 11, 2020, 01:12:26 am
If you make the stiff handle 36 inch long, even a 8 feet bow would act more like a 60 inch bow with much better string angle at full draw. Then, there are very long Japanese bamboo bows. I have no idea how much of its middle is stiff.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: sleek on December 11, 2020, 04:04:49 am
I've written an article for the Primitive  Archer magazine about how to make a bow from ax handles. You basically splice two handles together and make your bow. It will be the February/March issue. Id go into detail on it  but I dont want to ruin my article. Happy to help you out though if you decide you want to make a hickory ax handle bow.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: DC on December 12, 2020, 10:11:24 am
I've been drywalling our spare room so drywall stuff is in my head. Has anyone used paper drywall tape as a backing?
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: PatM on December 12, 2020, 10:16:32 am
People actually have.  There's a lot of argument as to how much protection glued on paper can actually do.   Paper phenolic actually has greater strength numbers than linen phenolic which seems counterintuitive.

  If you really want to use  "paper" it might be best to bend your primitive rules and get some fishpaper which is the old material used for fiber backing.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Pat B on December 12, 2020, 10:24:29 am
If you think what paper is, it is wood fibers "felted" together to make up the paper. Add glue to the mixture it can be pretty strong. Take a piece of brown grocery bag paper add a coating of TB glue, let it dry completely and try to pull it apart, not rip but actually pull as happens when a bow is drawn.
You won't prevent breakage with any soft backing but you can help prevent splinters lifting on the back which is probably how a break initiates in many cases.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: PatM on December 12, 2020, 10:56:14 am
  People often forget to consider all aspects of the backing material.  The glue counts for a lot.

  Glass and carbon are nothing really without epoxy actually helping out.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: scp on December 12, 2020, 11:35:56 am
  People often forget to consider all aspects of the backing material.  The glue counts for a lot.

  Glass and carbon are nothing really without epoxy actually helping out.

Exactly.

And thickness. If we put enough brown paper or silk layers with enough epoxy in between, we might have pretty good backing material, possibly even better than hickory. We are talking double digit layers here. I might try silk fabric and hide glue one day.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Pat B on December 12, 2020, 12:14:32 pm
I'm talking a single layer of brown grocery bag paper or a single layer of silk, linen or burlap. More that that will add too much physical weight to the bow slowing it down. Consider what the backing is doing. All it is is something to hold down splinters, not holding the bow together otherwise. All it has to do is bend a little and recover.
If you are looking for ultimate strength try a strip of sheet metal. Now, that would be a strong backing although very impractical. We are talking about a simple solution for a simple problem...and still the best backing for a clean stave with a clean back is the back ring of that stave. It is way stronger than any applied soft backing. How about a pic of the back of your stave.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: scp on December 12, 2020, 12:50:20 pm
 I sometimes simply use one dried but unprocessed back sinew on each limb with hide glue. I was wondering whether native Americans ever did that. And I read some evidence for that, even though I cannot assertain how many layers were used.

If one brown paper backing is useless, how about ten layers? I think even that much paper and glue would be lighter than rawhide, not to mention hickory or fiberglass.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Pat B on December 12, 2020, 12:59:34 pm
One single layer of paper with TB glue is not useless. Try the experiment I mentioned above. You might be surprised. Why would you think that. Multiple layers is too much.
 I believe the only Native Americans that used sinew were in the drier western states. The eastern woodlands were too humid for sinew backings. Most of the Eastern Woodland Natives use unbacked selfbows. They were longer so no need for backings.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: Woody roberts on December 12, 2020, 08:41:57 pm
Ive always felt that the glue that soaked into the wood had as much to do with preventing a splinter from lifting as whatever backing was used. The backing being only part of the equation.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: PatM on December 12, 2020, 10:22:39 pm
I sometimes simply use one dried but unprocessed back sinew on each limb with hide glue. I was wondering whether native Americans ever did that. And I read some evidence for that, even though I cannot assertain how many layers were used.

If one brown paper backing is useless, how about ten layers? I think even that much paper and glue would be lighter than rawhide, not to mention hickory or fiberglass.
   
    One of the bows in the Encyclopedia had that type of backing.
Title: Re: affordable materials and bow backings
Post by: RyanY on December 13, 2020, 12:31:01 pm
I like to argue that backings are unnecessary if you pick wood with good grain. I’d have a hard time trusting a bow that I know has imperfect grain that was backed without something more robust like rawhide or wood. And I’d kick myself if it broke and I thought I could get away with it.