Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on December 04, 2020, 10:40:35 am
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Ok I been hi jacking the other thread. Bring you up to date. Been working on I guess my third recurve. The others was many moons ago when I was beginning. 67”ntn 1/1-2 at fades, 3/8 at tips , 1-1/4mid limb. going for 50#@28 or there abouts. The tips where 3” behind the handle off the caul. Now 2-1/8 Been tillered to 50@25. The set came at about 23” Been holding since then.
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The trace of my longbow caul is above the bow in the pic. My test here is which bow design with same amount of off the wall at handle reflex is the same. Which one yield better cast?
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The set took place at mid limb and towards the fade. Took some out at fades and some off at outer limbs. Now shows some to come off at fade on one side. Bending real even though. Without getting the caliber out it feels from 8” from tips the limbs are getting progressively thicker . More so at fades. Where should I remove more mass to prevent set from here on out. Oh the back is also slightly trapped. Arvin
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String alignment at this point.
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Strung profile
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Here’s the back unstrung.
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Ok you pros I know you are on here and have looked so where’s my help. You guys know I don’t have patience. 😁😁😁
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Well I’m certainly not a pro.
Are your tips static recurves or are they working?
I found I like my static recurves a little shorter. I get a little more working limb that way and I can shave more weight off the static recurve tips.
They still give me nice early draw weight and a smooth draw yet.
Bjrogg
PS I got no numbers to prove anything but I seem to be able to hold my profile pretty good using that strategy. Not sure if any of that helps, but maybe it will give you something to think about before a real pro replies
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BJ they do work but I have not a clue where to leave the mass from here on. I would guess take it off everywhere but that’s just a guess. 3” more would be about 6-8 pounds on my longbows. But thanks for your help.
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BJ they do work but I have not a clue where to leave the mass from here on. I would guess take it off everywhere but that’s just a guess. 3” more would be about 6-8 pounds on my longbows. But thanks for your help.
Ok I was thinking they might be working that’s why I was so interested in seeing a full draw.
As far as taking off mass I’m thinking like you said . Really don’t see anything I don’t like to much. I probably would avoid set in the fades. Take a little off everywhere and keep monitoring the set. It seems like it hurts more in the inners
Bjrogg
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Thanks BJ I’ll follow that and try to talk my wife to take a pic with it drawn to 25”
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Pulled to 25 again lost 1/4 but it seems to go back to 2” after a few min. That nasty word that starts with a Hhhhh. Here’s a pic
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Ok it looks like left side mid limb to 4” from fade needs some off.
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That’s what my eye sees to Arvin. It’s looking pretty darn nice though.
It would fit me real good right there you can stop now and put it on Santa’s sleigh headed my way.
Bjrogg
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Remember we have to test it first. I thought I might hear that from you right about now. You get me thru this without more than a 1/2” more set. Let me take it to the flats and shoot it it’s yours!
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You certainly nailed the "bows with tips in the same position at rest should theoretically shoot the same". Be interesting to see if that's true.
I would like to see you just make a same weight bow with short statics and not try to achieve the same tip position. Have it match the reflexed curve plus have the tips a few inches to the back.
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Well Pat I will build that bow if you will do the string groves I am not a good carver. Arvin
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Remember we have to test it first. I thought I might hear that from you right about now. You get me thru this without more than a 1/2” more set. Let me take it to the flats and shoot it it’s yours!
Sounds like fun. And some pretty good motivation to.
I like where you are going. I think it looks really nice. I see that same spot you mentioned. It’s really close though to my eye.
Bjrogg
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What weight you at 25”?
Your hooks are working about what? 3/8ths an inch?
Whats working length of limb?
Target is 50@28” correct
With those working hooks the profile a brace from
One did of that length end up looking like they bend more on outer third. I think its hard to have guys judge without seeing the pyramid profile. Looking at it in tree will fool folks thinking its a flatbow. The Super Pyramid is a different animal entirely. I had to shorten mine as i started seeing limb not returning to unbraced profile i wanted. Glad i did. Cuz i dropped some limb mass and in end got some more top end out of it.
I think at that length its a trade off how much tips cant take vs how much you have to thin limbs to get to tiller. I opted to have outer third bend more. Seemed to work?
Shawn~
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You certainly nailed the "bows with tips in the same position at rest should theoretically shoot the same". Be interesting to see if that's true.
If anyone can "build two bows just alike except". your the guy.
there's something to be said for your approach of settling on a good design and see how much you can fine tune it.
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I posted this on another thread, but here's what I think might be a great profile... it's one of Marc's bows.
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That one looks like a working recurve and I've never had much luck with those. Profile looks good except it could work a little bit just before the recurves
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static profile~
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Marc thanks I was thinking the same but it’s scary thin there. I took some out at the fades and rounded The handle a bit in that area.pic coming. Had to add to the side of handle because lack of stave. Growth rings where to good not to give this stave my best go. Listing close here guys thanks Arvin
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Thanks to who ever fixed my dumbo fingers. 😁😁😁here is a pic of a little boo backed Osage I am working on. Over ninety on the long string at 19”. Flats could get interesting this year
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Marc thanks I was thinking the same but it’s scary thin there. I took some out at the fades and rounded The handle a bit in that area.pic coming. Had to add to the side of handle because lack of stave. Growth rings where to good not to give this stave my best go. Listing close here guys thanks Arvin
Then leave it alone till you get closer to full draw
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and be careful getting up on things to take pictures...your balance ain't what it used to be... LOL Looking good... :OK
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Yes, two sensor Chrono’s are notorious for giving slightly higher than actual speeds based off a good three sensor or doppler. As a rule i subtract 15fps off any two sensor Chrono.
HH~
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Glad you got it back here.
Bjrogg
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Good to be back! Did some hopefully the last heat correction. Here is down the back.
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Those that like to feel the mass I wish you could put your hands on this bow. Lord help me I know we should not be proud . Thank you for this stave that I almost culled. Arvin
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And strung pic
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I had to dig those rasp and scraper and file out just for looks. I did most of the bow with a palm sander. No wonder my hands hurt.😁😁😁😁😁
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That sure is a straight piece of hedge. Nice rings to.
Bjrogg
PS I love Osage but my sinuses don’t. I try to avoid sanding it as much as I can.
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Ok 50@28 from the original 3” off the wall we are now at 1-3/4 off wall . This should be a pretty close text . My pyramid takes about the same. Off to cut that arrow rest.
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Ok the bow shot one arrow 246yds . Not good conditions damp overcast and no wind. Old man I coming after my 70# record. 😁😁😁😁😁Steve and I are seeing who can shoot the longest shot with the lightest bow in that class. 😁😁☝️😁😁
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Now back to 1-3/4 off the wall
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Here it sets one coat of raddle can. It’s getting wet and humid here. The handle is 2” thick . The belly of the recurves touch table at same time. The string knocks are 3-1/2 “ off the table.
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I finally got that handle in the right bow. Jim
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What did the other one shoot?
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Pat the longbow shot 239 yds in 2019. To cloudy for crono today maybe Monday or Tuesday.
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For the guys that want to know what I consider real good growth rings look like here they are.
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I like that ratio. Lots of dense wood not alot of chalky stuff. Good wood for flipping or staticing.
Shawn
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Ok the bow shot one arrow 246yds . Not good conditions damp overcast and no wind. Old man I coming after my 70# record. 😁😁😁😁😁Steve and I are seeing who can shoot the longest shot with the lightest bow in that class. 😁😁☝️😁😁
Its going to be hard to compete with that!
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It's a beauty Arvin... can't wait to hear how far it shoots at the Flats. :OK
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Any chance you can chrono it and weigh the arrow?
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Arrow 458 gr. Bamboo,27-28” draw 50# 246 yds. I can’t crono to cloudy . We have to wait grasshopper. Maybe Monday.
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Arrow 458 gr. Bamboo,27-28” draw 50# 246 yds. I can’t crono to cloudy . We have to wait grasshopper. Maybe Monday.
I'm on stand by. I dont think I can compete with that with a 26 inch draw. You are gonna make me step up my game here.
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Enjoyed this adventure Arvin. Thanks for bringing us along.
Bjrogg
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I think you could get some more out of it with shorter , sharper recurves. They would give you a bit more working limb and more 'leverage' for energy storage.
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I think you could get some more out of it with shorter , sharper recurves. They would give you a bit more working limb and more 'leverage' for energy storage.
That was my first thought to, but I was thinking maybe they are working. Arvin confirmed they are working and I can see in the full draw that they are. They might hold up better working like this?
Interesting post I really enjoyed it.
Bjrogg
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Maybe on shorter limb . Kevin had that style at flats maybe less work at the recurves it it was about 2” wide at fades. His got the job done in flight at 26” but my longbow won out in the broadhead division. Probably about same speed. He might have bit of a different view. Woke up to sun so I will test the speed later today. Arvin
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Guys I rechecked he weight this morning.50@27 I exercised it a bit finally shot The bow . Short drew the bow. I don’t believe it and y’all won’t either probably. Shot for five or six times. High 190s to 211. Will have to build a special arrow for this one. It’s to perfect to mess with at this point. Arrow weight 458gr. It’s sinking that broadhead pretty deep and i can hardly pull the arrow out. I know that means nothing but I still have to two hand the broadhead. Arvin
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Congratulations on that! Id be dancing in my shoes if I got those numbers. Now I know I have to increase my draw length. I was hoping to get by with 26 inches next year too.
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High 190s to 211.
Cooool!!
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Maybe on shorter limb . Kevin had that style at flats maybe less work at the recurves it it was about 2” wide at fades. His got the job done in flight at 26” but my longbow won out in the broadhead division. Probably about same speed. He might have bit of a different view. Woke up to sun so I will test the speed later today. Arvin
My view is you have the superior design. My short bow has always been a way to limit my variables and maximize efficiencies with the remaining factors. I've just been trying to play catch up to your arrow for 2 years now. Lebhuntfish, aka Patrick has a design out there that I haven't been able to beat yet either. Yet.
Anyways, dont stop building now, you can still make a faster bow than this one.
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Arvin, I believe you but I don't believe the reading you are getting. The profile is just not aggressive enough to get those kind of numbers. Your flight shots indicate a speed of about 180 or low 180's. There is a glitch in some of the chronos that I have noticed that will put speeds either 20 fps fast or 20 fps slow. I could never figure it out but I have a feeling thats what you are getting. I could be wrong of course but I have tested scores of bows with similar profiles and certain rules seem to apply.
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Here it sets one coat of raddle can. It’s getting wet and humid here. The handle is 2” thick . The belly of the recurves touch table at same time. The string knocks are 3-1/2 “ off the table.
I see a common thing here between your bow and mine worth exploring. Both have the tips 3 inches above the handle. Yours is half an inch further however. With your design being so long, I think you can obtain high speeds easier than my shorter bow can. If you haven't already gone faster than I can, you are close and won't be long before you do. It looks like you may have just joined the 200 fps club. I think there are 3 people in it now if so, Mark, Steve, now you. Im VERY excited to see that. Especially with the bow design you used. Congratulations on that achievement sir, it's a big one!
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Shot a crappy arrow that was 27 to back of point still looking for it. Shot this arrow Kevin borrowed last summer. It weighed in at 494 gr. 228 then snap shoot 243yds. Now I feel comfortable saying I beat Steve’s 223yds with old five hundred gr. rule.
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Kinda miss Patrick. It’s been awhile since I’ve heard anything from him.
Bjrogg
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Steve I’m sure your right but I can’t wait for you to see this bow. Where the arrow lands is what counts not how fast the machine said it got there. Arvin
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I did a close up video but don’t know how to post it.
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I dont know if its possible? Maybe put it on YouTube then post the link?
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Arvin, I believe you but I don't believe the reading you are getting. The profile is just not aggressive enough to get those kind of numbers. Your flight shots indicate a speed of about 180 or low 180's. There is a glitch in some of the chronos that I have noticed that will put speeds either 20 fps fast or 20 fps slow. I could never figure it out but I have a feeling thats what you are getting. I could be wrong of course but I have tested scores of bows with similar profiles and certain rules seem to apply.
Did you ever chrono the bow i sent you Steve?
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I did a close up video but don’t know how to post it.
Let's see if this works for us:
https://youtu.be/emJKmdORrKc
I looked for video tags to embed it, but I don't see any in the header buttons. If someone can point them out to me or the code that is needed for the tags I can edit this and embed it instead.
Mark
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Thanks Mark. Got to have you smart guys in this primitive world if you are going to show your goods. 😁😁thanks again. Arvin
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That looks good Arvin. Did you heat treat it any? Were you able to pin point where any set my be taking place?
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Thanks to all that participated!!!! Marc St. Louis for telling to stay out of the hooks Steve for advising me to deepen my fades. BJ for having interest first. All that has looked and found interest in flight shooting. It’s been fun and I may have a few more test results come in. I have learned from this build believe me. Arvin
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You must have those tips lined up super good as skinny as they are and working yet to.
Bjrogg
Ps that sure is a clean stave
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They did line up good no string groves. Not but 2-1/2-3” on the limb though.
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Thats a good fling for damp heavy air Arvin.
HH~
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Full draw pic.
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67”ntn 50@27
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Outstanding
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Beautiful general shape and lovely handle. Very nice bow!
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Man that full draw picture is really nice!! Well done. Should be a really sweet shooting bow
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That looks like that one will compete Arvin. Well done.
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You are REAL close to a perfect tiller there!
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Looking good Arvin. That full draw looks very nice
Bjrogg
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Turned out great Arvin. Hope that one gets the job done for you.
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Sweet looking bow Arvin. Great job as usual.