Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bentstick54 on December 03, 2020, 08:20:43 pm
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I have an osage stave roughed out at the very beginning of floor tillering. It has a pretty even reflex from tip to tip at about 1-3/4” at the centerline of the handle. It’s going to be a 66” NTN flat bow, 1-1/2” at the widest part of the fades straight tapered to 3/8” tips, 4” handle and 3” fades. Total 10” non-working.
I have not worked with any that had this much natural reflex and would like some advice on how to proceed with tillering to maintain the most of the reflex and minimize set. How far do you tiller on a long string before changing to a short string for a low brace? Where do I find info on Badgers mass and no set theories?
Any helpful advice will be greatly appreciated. Brian
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Here’s a picture of the stave.
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Assuming you are going to make the tips pretty skinny I would say bring the bow in around 22 oz. One of the keys to a low set bow is getting the bow working up into the fades without taking set there. Just make sure it is dry. As far as how long to long string. Well you can use any method of tillering you choose but if you want to brace the bow when it is about 10 or 12# heavy then I would brace it when it is hitting weight at about 24" on the long string. Ignore limb travel just read the weight at 24". I usually brace at about 23" actually.
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I heat most of my staves to that profile before tillering. Just treat it like a straight stave and you'll be fine. If you have a 'gizmo' use it. You'll have to do like Steve said and work the limbs into the fades, and leave the last few inches stiff until you reduce them at the end. It's a great profile for a hunting bow... :OK
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Thanks to both of you. This is the only style I have made, all Osage, and have been very happy with them. My 45# to 50#+bows have been coming in around 20 to 21 oz, so I’ve at least been getting in the ballpark on mass weight. Most have started out with some dips and dives in the that I just left and tillered from that. The only heat bending I have done is taking out some twists and straightening some sideways bends in the limbs. This stave is probably seasoned 6 or 7 years, originally inside for most of those years, but the moved outside and ignored. I picked it up along with some others that looked real rough and weathered. Lots of bug holes and checking. They took a lot of work to get down past all of that to good rings. Once I did I sealed them and moved them inside to my basement for about 6 months. I’ve made two bows from these staves already and both worked out pretty good. I want to take this one slow and try to minimize the amount of set and maintain as much of the natural reflex as I can.
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I used dry heat to try and balance out the natural reflex in both limbs, and just started playing on the long string. One limb has no knots or visible imperfections. The other limb has 3 solid knots, 2 of which go all the way through the limb, and 1 centered between them that starts out as a pin knot on the back but angles to the center of the belly and come see out about the same size as the other two. I will try to post photoswiththe knots picturedon the back of the bow. There is a green dot where the 3rd knot shows on the belly side. This is a symmetrical bow, so arrow pass will be at top of the handle, so 2” above center. Should I use the limb with the knots in it as my upper or lower limb?
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I’m watching ! Arvin
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Got to 20” on long string today. Outer 1/3rd on left limb is showing about 1/4” of set started. This is the limb that has the knots and that I used dry heat on to try to even up the reflex to match the natural reflex of the right limb. Fresh eyes and opinions wanted. What do you guys see on tiller so far?
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Having trouble getting photo to post.
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That is looking really good on the long string.
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I have it to 50# at 22” on the long string. My goal is 50# at 28”. I’ve decided to make left limb with the knots my bottom limb because it wants to stay stiffer because of the knots. Left limb has taken about 3/4” set in the outer 1/3, and right limb about 5/8” also in outer 1/3. Planning on cutting in string nocks and switching to short string at about 24” to finish out. Mass weight at this point is 22.3oz
Would really like some opinions on the tiller at this point, where you would remove wood to minimize anymore set.
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I'd say it's time to go to low brace, 3" to 4" and see how the string tracks. The limbs look pretty good to me.
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Thanks Pat. Always glad for your opinion.
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Didn’t mean to ignore your comment from yesterday Will B. Thanks, I do appreciate the input.
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Got to work on it some this afternoon and filed in string nocks and strung at a 4” brace. Got grip roughed in and string tracks pretty good. Exercised it back up to 22”, then scraped and exercised, several sequences. Worked it to 50#@ 25”. Left strung to sweat for about 2 hours, so far no issues, but have lost majority of reflex in outer 1/2 of limbs. So far draw weight per inch is running a consist 2.5# to 3# per in from 10” out.
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Hit post to quick, sorry.
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At rest.
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At this point should I keep taking off entire limbs, or concentrate on the inners to finish out the last 3” of draw?
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Inner third of the left limb looks a little stiff, although I understand those are where your knots are.
Which limb is the top?
If it were me, I'd be pulling from where my string hand will be when I'm drawing it, and assess the strength of the limbs that way.
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I’ve been lucky so far pulling this way until about the last inch then shooting in some by hand and finishing tillering by feel from there. I’m thinking of using the left limb with the knots as my lower limb because it’s starting to run a little thinner than the right limb and wants to stay stiffer anyway. Would like other opinions on my train of thought, as I can switch limbs with no problems being it’s symetrical. I usually let the bow decide, but haven’t faced this knot situation before.
Do I continue removing wood from entire limbs, or concentrate on any particular area to try to minimize any additional set? Hopefully you can see penciled tracing of where the limbs started at reflex before starting tillering behind unbraced photo.
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Knot locations
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I'm not an expert, but I think you have the right idea. That stiffer limb should do well as the bottom limb. I think you have done a nice job so far and it looks like you're about there.
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Thx Bob, hopefully I can get to work on it some more this afternoon.
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I really hate giving tillering advice just from pictures.
I agree that your doing a nice job so far. It’s to the point where it gets harder and harder to figure out what isn’t a bow and what is. Move slowly and check on the tree more often.
I’m not a expert either. I hate to cause any confusion because I do think you are doing a good job so far. I probably would make the knotty limb the top limb. I just like having the best wood in the bottom limb. I’m not saying that is for sure the right way, but it’s how I usually do it.
As for your bend it looks nice. I think I would probably try to get the inner working just a little more on left limb. I know you have knots there though so it’s a bit of a risk.
Right limb looks slightly stiff between your 2 and 3 marks.
Probably start there first and maybe see if you can tease a little out of the fades. Really need to be careful there though.
I just want to say again. You are doing a nice job so far. Basically keep doing what your doing
Bjrogg
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Thx Brian, was hoping you would chime in. You’ve got a lot more bows under your belt than I do. I agree that it’s hard to tiller off of just photos, so I won’t hold you responsible lol. I’ll try to tweek it a bit to 26” at current 4” brace height, then bump up to a 6” brace to finish out from there. I’ve found that the bows I’ve made of this design seem to have their sweet spot at about 6-1/4” brace. At 26” I’ll start shooting some arrows through it, and try both limbs a bit and see how they feel and decide for sure which limb to make the top.
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Worked it to 51# @ 28”. Have shot about 25 arrows through it then turning it over and shot another 25. Can’t really tell any difference between the two. I am planning on using the limb with the knots as the upper limb at this point hoping it will benefit the longevity of the life of the bow. 1st photo is with knots in lower limb, 2nd photo knots in upper limb. I will continue shooting in a 150-200 arrows before finishing in case I need to do any tweaking. Opinions and comments welcome.
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I have shot 100 plus arrows through it since I got it tillered out to 28”. Settled on the knotty limb as the upper limb. Last night I shot 50 arrows through it, then set up chronograph. 478gr arrow averaged 165fps. 432gr arrow average 170fps. Then I put it back on tillering tree to double check weight, held up at 50# at 28”. Checked for draw force, from 12” to 23” gained pretty even 2ppi, 23”to 26” gained 2.5ppi, 26” to 28” bumped to 3#ppi. Lost 1-3/4” of reflex that I started with, to almost dead straight immediately after unstringing.
Final bow Osage 50#@28”, 66” NTN. Total mass weight 21.7ouches. 12 strand D97 string.
Still need apply Truoil finish and leather handle wrap. Should be a good hunter. Thanks for some helpful input from those that offered it.
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Well done sir. Looks good
Bjrogg
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looks like you have a bow! :OK
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Hello all, I'm a new bowyer with just 3 bows under my belt. But just had to say that the bow looks awesome to me. The pics are the way to go for someone like me with an untrained eye. I was just curious why you didn't use heat or steam to keep the reflex. it would have been very nice if it had retained the reflex but on the other hand, you didn't really lose much in regards to a set if it had been flatter to begin with. myself, love the knots on upper limb where I can see them when I shoot. can't wait to see the finished bow.
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Nice job! Should be a good shooter!
Hawkdancer
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Thanks everyone. Not near perfect but shoots pretty good, and hope to be stable and long lasting.
Tradslinger, I have lot of learning to do myself as this is only #15 for me. I did do some heat corrections to take a few side to side bends out, and to line up the tips. I built a 1/2 caul to match the clean limbs natural reflex and added more reflex to the limb with the knots to balance them out. So they were pretty close to balanced when I started tillering. The reflex held pretty good until it got to about 22” on the long string when it slowly started to disappear. Most was lost in the outer 1/3, but then a little farther in. Tips started out about 2-1/4” ahead of the handle and still has about 1/2” remaining on the limb that had the natural reflex, but none on the heated in reflex limb. The inner 1/3 where the knots are resisted bending and I was afraid to over heat it because of the knots. All that being said, yes I hoped to maintain the reflex, but am happy it turned out as well as it did. I put the 1st coat of Truoil on it today.
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Hey, that will be one beautiful bow. I understand about the knots. when something makes you nervous, you probably have a good reason to be. But that is what makes Osage so cool, usually they have character that just makes them stand out from others. I still have to work around knots for the first time, been putting it off. I got some osage that had been sitting out behind a barn for 20 years or more. the problem was that the longest pieces were only 50". So I splice two together for my first one. I plan to use a steel sleeve to make joint for a one piece. Gotta love taking a piece of wood and turning it into a weapon for sport or hunting that has been around for thousands of years and stlll is effecient. Looks like you are becoming a pretty good bowyer.