Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: mmattockx on July 21, 2020, 04:49:31 pm

Title: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: mmattockx on July 21, 2020, 04:49:31 pm
I'm going to try using a natural glue in the form of Knox gelatin. Since it is intended for use as a thickening agent in cooking the directions aren't much help when using it to glue a backing onto a bow. Can anyone suggest how much water to use to make the glue and how to use it once made? This is all new for me.


Thanks,
Mark
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: StickMark on July 21, 2020, 07:14:16 pm
The archives, search engine, is your best bet regarding answers.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: Pat B on July 21, 2020, 07:26:30 pm
for sinew, rawhide and snake skin backing I like the hide glue(Knox is refined hide glue) to be the consistency of syrup. I keep it warm in a double boiler so it doesn't gel to quickly which gives me time to lay the backing. My double boiler is an old crock pot from Good Will($5) and a stainless steel pan floating in the hot water with the hide glue in the pan.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: Eric Krewson on July 22, 2020, 07:09:39 am
I use the same stet up as Pat, from the same source. I make my Knox about like thin syrup.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: Markus on July 23, 2020, 08:53:26 am
I have read that gelatin used for food purposes are made from pig’s bones. Good enough, but most likely a little more brittle than hide glue. Here is a good source for hide glue, can be had in several grades.
https://bjornhideglue.com/
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: mmattockx on July 23, 2020, 10:46:21 am
I have read that gelatin used for food purposes are made from pig’s bones. Good enough, but most likely a little more brittle than hide glue.

I have been told that as well, but had not seen any comments regarding its final properties as compared to hide glue. I did some test glue ups with the gelatin yesterday, will test them today. I can see why people use it, laminating material onto wood was super easy with it. Very little mess and easy to get everything laid down where I wanted it.


Mark
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: PatM on July 23, 2020, 11:37:17 am
To the contrary Knox is less prone to being brittle than pretty much every commercial glue I have tried.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: willie on July 23, 2020, 12:12:07 pm
Pat, what other collagen glues have you compared Knox to?
fish glue?
rabbit glue?
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: DC on July 23, 2020, 12:46:45 pm
If it doesn't work I think there's quite a few people on here wasting their time :D
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: mmattockx on July 23, 2020, 02:37:48 pm
If it doesn't work I think there's quite a few people on here wasting their time :D

So you mean it's all my fault if it doesn't work?  :o


Mark
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: DC on July 23, 2020, 02:38:36 pm
Pretty much ;D ;D
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: PatM on July 23, 2020, 02:58:58 pm
Pat, what other collagen glues have you compared Knox to?
fish glue?
rabbit glue?

 Fish glue and Lee Valley hide glue.  Rabbit glue is supposed to be flexible but not as strong.  I could get that at an art store but once I switched to Knox I saw no reason to experiment further.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: Eric Krewson on July 23, 2020, 03:36:39 pm
I have used hide glue and I have used Knox, I couldn't tell a difference.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: mmattockx on July 23, 2020, 04:08:33 pm
Pretty much ;D ;D

That's a lot of pressure I'm under now.


To the contrary Knox is less prone to being brittle than pretty much every commercial glue I have tried.

I could get that at an art store but once I switched to Knox I saw no reason to experiment further.

Pat, what do you use the Knox glue for on your bows?


Mark
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: willie on July 23, 2020, 04:49:43 pm
Fish glue and Lee Valley hide glue.  Rabbit glue is supposed to be flexible but not as strong. 

Could you also share a bit more about the fish glue?  what you used it for? and how it differed from hide/knox?  would you use it for other bowyering things?
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: Pat B on July 23, 2020, 05:47:15 pm
I believe fish glue comes from the air bladders of certain fish. Fish glue is used in the making of Asiatic horn bows but probably other applications. It must be a stronger glue than typical hide glue.
I use hide glue for sinew, rawhide and snake skins backings.
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: DC on July 23, 2020, 06:26:21 pm
Isn't isinglass the same as fish glue(yes, it is I looked it up)
It's used to clarify wine and you can get it at you brew places. Used to be uesd to preserve eggs I think
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: bradsmith2010 on July 23, 2020, 09:27:59 pm
I did some bows with hide glue and knox lately,, the  only difference I could tell was the smell,, :) both worked great,,for sinew backing
Title: Re: Tips for gluing with Knox gelatin?
Post by: PatM on July 23, 2020, 09:55:57 pm
Quote from: mmattockx link=topic=68543.msg962270#msg962270

Pat, what do you use the Knox glue for on your bows?


Mark
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   Sinew and rawhide.