Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stickhead on April 16, 2020, 09:47:34 am
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I’m working on an otherwise promising bow. When I finally got it to full draw, I heard a crackle and winced. When I managed to open my eyes again, the bow was still intact, but a tiny splinter had lifted by a problematic knot. It’s about 2/3 up the limb.
I could:
1) scrape down the splinter and hope for the best (I’d be introducing a small violation at the edge)
2) patch the area with a bit of backing material
3) bind it with string material & superglue
4) back the whole bow (I’d rather not, if I can avoid it)
5) some other remedy
Any recommendations?
(https://i.imgur.com/fXbSB72.jpg)
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I think you have two options, Tom. Wrap it or scrap it. My own personal opinion is scrap it. I'm not a repaired bow kinda guy anymore. Maybe I have too many bows or maybe I just changed over the years.
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I'm in the same boat mostly because I just plain don't like wraps and I don't like losing my preferred draw weight reducing it taking it out.It's your call.I've got plenty of bows anyway too.
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I’m in that boat to. It does look like some violations around that knot?
I might try narrowing up and getting rid of knot and violations. Then retilering. Don’t know if that possible, but thought I’d throw it out there.
Bjrogg
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I don't see a knot.You must of gouged it there or something.That's quite a splinter wanting to get bigger.Corners need to be chamfered properly too.
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I see a small knot just to the right of the circle pencil mark. Along with a violation “above” the knot. Another possibility might be to chase another ring?
I guess a lot depends on how much wood you have to work with. If it won’t make what you want and you have another stave?
If you don’t have anything else to work on and want to experiment?
I probably would never really trust it like it is though.
Bjrogg
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The splinter did'nt start at that tiny tiny pin knot.
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I’m just looking on my phone, but it looks to me like the violations start alongside that small knot and extend to the lifted splinter. I’m guessing the handle is to the right? I zoomed in as much as I can and it looks like that splinter goes deeper than one growth ring.
Sorry out of ideas
Bjrogg
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I see a small knot just to the right of the circle pencil mark. Along with a violation “above” the knot. Another possibility might be to chase another ring?
I guess a lot depends on how much wood you have to work with. If it won’t make what you want and you have another stave?
If you don’t have anything else to work on and want to experiment?
I probably would never really trust it like it is though.
Bjrogg
The handle is to the right. There are some grooves in the ring around the pin knot on the right, that I scraped out. The splinter is along one of the grooves.
I’m not crazy about a wrap either. Maybe I’ll just scrape it out, put on my safety glasses and hope for the best.
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No, that would be an accident looking for a place to happen. If your not going to wrap it, chase a ring ,or two, and back it with Smooth On, and a hard wood backing of Hickory ,or Bamboo. If you don't want to do it now set it aside,and do it later. Just start another bow for now. Better than a limb cracking you in the head or worse.JMO
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Good call on a backing option but you'll have to flatten the back.Then the splinter can be totally removed then.Did'nt think he wanted a backed bow though.
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That limb looks it gave up the ghost. Scrape out make a 18lb kids bow or harvest the riser out of bow. Suks but it happens all the time.
What draw length did it do the noise making?
HH
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Some times you have to do what you have to do. I know it would need a planed back to mesh with a backing. Chasing the ring would be the way to get the splinter out. Looks like Osage ,so it would be worth the fix to me. You, and Pearl, Bjrogg, Stickhead may have a good stock of Osage, and not want to fool with the stave any longer ,and can understand that also.
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Could also be a good horse bow in their some where. Made a few of those over the years out of splits ,and sinew.
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OK, I have repaired several of these types of splinters, the good thing is you found it in time.
Pull the bow back on your tree, pull it back enough to open the crack and put superglue in the crack while it is open. Wrap the crack with nylon serving thread extending it 1/2" past the crack in each direction. Soak the serving in super glue until it won't hold anymore, done
If you have a good shooter there is no reason to trash it for esthetic reasons.
As for durability, Tony heard the dreaded tink in an osage bow he got for a dollar chance at a fundraiser for the Alabama Children's Hospital, I had made the bow and donated it. When it tinked I was at the same shoot with him and a bunch of friends, the bow was snake backed and all of us together couldn't find the crack until he turned just right in the sunlight, Scott spotted it, it was on the edge and a lot like yours. I repaired it on the spot, the next day Tony was shooting it in the tournament.
The IBO at Pappys was coming up, the bow was the only selfbow Tony had so off to Twin Oaks he went.
The bow is still shootable but Tony retired after shooting it for a bunch of years after the repair, it had lost poundage in its later years and started following the string. He estimated he has put 250K arrows through the bow before he retired it and a good part of those after the repair.
I always try to fix them, just to see if I can, I don't always succeed but have made some pretty impressive saves so far.
Here is Tony with his second place trophy in the IBO Worlds in 2013, he was shooting his patched bow, a bow most of the posters here would would have thrown away. He is the big guy on the left, Nolan on the right was shooting a twin to Tony's bow that I made as well.
The other picture is a patch like I described on one of my bows, got ten years on this one after patch and it is still shooting.
(https://i.imgur.com/bn6Cuiz.jpg)
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More on patching, if the splinter wasn't on the edge I probably wouldn't fool with a patch wrap.
The wrapped bamboo backed bow is a case in point. It was an osage bow that developed strage cracks on the back.
(https://i.imgur.com/YWwczlI.jpg)
I didn't trust this kind of damage to hold up with a wrap so I ground the back flat and bamboo backed it. Back then I was a little too agressive on my bamboo rind removal, I probably left a cut that raised a giant splinter on the bamboo.
I used the same technique, pull the bow, fill the splintered crack with super glue, relax the bow and give it a wrap. Works for me.
Why would I try to save such a bow? Before it was a bamboo backed bow I killed the biggest whitetail I had killed by any means, off the ground, on a public hunting area with it.
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To be clear here I've fixed plenty of bows myself too with splinters or cracks.Even horn bows and won a trophy or two with fixed bows,and they are still shooting too.Killing many deer.Got plenty of pictures if wanted.
Many ways to skin a cat here and take it as an accomplishment getting it to work.
Noone ever told this poster to throw it in the stove.
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Thats a backed selfbow. IBO dont allow backed bows in selfbow class. I remember that IBO in 2013. That was the end of Backed selfbows competing against a selfbow!
Just like you cant have a selfbow where the string touches belly of bow. I shot against
a lady with a selfbow that was a recurve really in the shootdown at IBO in 2019. Was like a warm up for me. Knew i couldnt go out cuz the bow was not legal anyway.
I have one that i have won more $ , wood and metal with that i cant remember. Got at least 200,000 shots thru it. As with all SBs that get shot that much it started to splinter a bit on upper limb. Been wrapped a long time now. Zero set, zero string follow, zero weight loss. 69” pryamid with flipped tips.
Hedge
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That limb looks it gave up the ghost. Scrape out make a 18lb kids bow or harvest the riser out of bow. Suks but it happens all the time.
What draw length did it do the noise making?
HH
Hedge -
It’s currently a stout bow, which I wanted. It ticked at 24 or 25”, pulling mid-70’s.
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Lots of good ideas listed above. I'm with Eric that I just can't give up on a bow. My elk hunting bow is 62lbs @ 28" and it developed a splinter. Looked a lot like yours. I did a sinew wrap of the area as Eric described. The bow hasn't lost an ounce of weight and the limbs are still straight. It has had some hard years hunting and stump shooting. Stirng it before first light and un-string after dark. It's been through rain, snow and dry heat. I live in the Southwest.
Good Luck with what ever you decide to do with it.
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Well in that case you have plenrty in her to scrape , wrap and still get a fine whitetail killing bow without much issue?
Which limb was it. I find with once you have many shots out a selfbow its usually the upper limb that starts to give it up. That is all but elm! I have a 66” elm bow with prolly 300,000 arrows threw it. As long as i dont shoot it in 95 degree humid weather it will be shooting 60yrs from now. I just throw it in the attic for a few days every sommer. Good as day i made many years ago.
Hedge~
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Pardon me if I missed it, but where on the bow limb is that crack? I'd like a picture of the entire bow, with a pencil pointing at the crack. I'd also like a side view of the entire bow braced and unbraced with the same pencil indicator. This will tell me where it is, what stress load it is under, and what damage has occurred during the crack to surrounding wood.
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it would be nice to see what Sleek wants to see
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I’ll post some more pics tomorrow.
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Here's some more pics. The splinter is shown by pencil marks. It is the bottom limb, shown on the left in the pics. It appears a bit like a hinge at some angles, but I think that's just because the pin knot causes a lump on the back just before the splinter.
I shaved it a little to smooth out the area, but I'm hesitant to go farther.
(https://i.imgur.com/h14qOx2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/25vayy8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KRh8T7Z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dr6h47U.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OIQ9pfg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hBamCxn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZPCuzye.jpg)
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Heat treat that area until its stiff. Then apply super glue to fill the crack, sand it smooth, apply a wrap, and you should be good to go.
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Hedge, the two guys on the podium were shooting osage selfbows backed with western diamondbacks, no bamboo. The bamboo backed bow is mine, I may have shot it the classic years ago but not The IBO. I haven't been to Twin Oaks since my wife died, its just not the same.
Here is another twin to their bows, I made it for Gil in 2011, it broke after 5 years of heavy use, he now has another one just like it but the new one doesn't shoot as good as the old one for him, different handle, it doesn't fit him quite as well as the first one.
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Thats a backed selfbow. IBO dont allow backed bows in selfbow class. I remember that IBO in 2013. That was the end of Backed selfbows competing against a selfbow!
Just like you cant have a selfbow where the string touches belly of bow. I shot against
a lady with a selfbow that was a recurve really in the shootdown at IBO in 2019. Was like a warm up for me. Knew i couldnt go out cuz the bow was not legal anyway.
I have one that i have won more $ , wood and metal with that i cant remember. Got at least 200,000 shots thru it. As with all SBs that get shot that much it started to splinter a bit on upper limb. Been wrapped a long time now. Zero set, zero string follow, zero weight loss. 69” pryamid with flipped tips.
Hedge
You can't shoot a recurved selfbow? Why wouldn't there be a class for that?
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That area is bending too much, and honestly, it shouldn't bend hardly at all. Use a heat gun to heat treat that one spot only, maybe 3 inches on either side of the splinter. Afterwards set the splinter with thin super glue, wrap it with cordage of your choice, and see how it does. You want that spot to almost completely stiffen up.
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Thanks for the advice, Sleek. I’ll give it a try.
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If that was Julia with the static recurve selfbow, I made her bow as well.
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I don’t have access to much Osage so maybe I feel differently about it .... but were I at that stage I might be tempted to take it down a growth ring or two and sinew back it. I’ve made a couple of sinew backed Osage and they seem “natural” partners to me
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if you were going to sinew back,, I dont think you woud have to go down a growth ring,, but if you had enough wood ,, it wouldnt hurt
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Was the bow repaired on one end? Then, that could be the one. May wanna build her one Eric thats IBO compatible. Hate to see her do well only to have the big wood given to the runner up for a rules violation.
Nice bow if i remeber right from IBO West Virginia.
Shawn~
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That's the one, Julia and her husband Danny are some of my best archery friends, good people.
I did the fix, before and after, there was a lot of hair pulling involved. So far there is not a ladies selfbow class in the IBO, Julia says they need 13 ladies to have one and have come up short so far.
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Prolly right. Just need a bow that conforms to the mens rules then I guess. Static is half the definition . . . and like their name they are considered Recurves in IBO World anyhow. I reckon for similiar reasons they don't let backed selfbows compete against selfbows.
Makes sense to me but there are those that get stuck in the "a selfbow is a selfbow is a Selfbow".
HH~
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Statics properly made are not the same performance wise as as simple selfbow.
I am for a uniform standard everywhere for the selfbow class, no bamboo, no sinew, and no recurves, that would even the playing field.
It is pretty much anything made of natural materials is OK in the class now locally, builders have come a long way in getting modern performance out of bamboo and recurving.
I am not competitive now but the guy who wins is shooting a bamboo backed working recurve osage bow with a recurve handle.
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I don't understand why it just can't be one material of any shape. People are always going on about straight bows being more accurate and forgiving so why would they object to a recurved selfbow of any other shape?
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Their rules and all selfbows are not equal. Backed SB's just flat out out perform none backed SB's. Same for a good statics.
HH~
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There's no such thing as a backed selfbow.
The static argument should be offset by the increased accuracy potential of a straight bow. I guess folks are undecided on that.
Still, there should be a recurved selfbow class rather than excluding them.
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I did not make IBO rules but I know who did and I shoot by them.
HH~
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That is a beautiful repair Eric. Thank you for sharing that.