Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Gordon on April 22, 2008, 05:18:56 am

Title: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2008, 05:18:56 am
This is my first attempt at a laminated R/D bow. The backing is bamboo, with a black walnut core and a yew belly. The yew was cut from a log that Joe Klink kindly gave to me (thank you Joe!). The bow is 64” ntn, 60# @ 27”, 1 ¼” wide to the mid-limbs tapering to ½” at the tips. Handle wrap is dyed elk with kangaroo lacing and the bow is finished with Tru-Oil. I’m not entirely satisfied with the result – I glued in too much deflex and I lost more reflex than I had hoped during tillering. So I ended up with some string follow. But I learned a great deal from this bow and I expect to do better on my next attempt.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_003.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_010.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_011.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_002.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_007.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_006.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/walnut_yew/BBWalnutYew_005.jpg)
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Dustybaer on April 22, 2008, 05:37:37 am
yeah, i see what you mean.  a skilled bowyer like you shouldn't be seen in public with such a lousy bow.  send it to me, i ain't proud  ;D

seriously, i think it's another fine example of your skill.  tiller and finish are immaculate.  love the handle and the tips, but i particularly like her at fulldraw.  and the reduced early draw weight is probably made up by increased accuracy.  i bet she's really smooth on the draw and a pleasure to shoot.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: NOMADIC PIRATE on April 22, 2008, 05:49:30 am
Holy cow Gordon !!!...looks great, .....what, you 100th laminated bow ? ;)
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: NOMADIC PIRATE on April 22, 2008, 05:57:41 am
......Seriously Gordon, the way you make and finish bows you should get in the business of selling them .....(for top dollars)

Gordon's archery,...hey I come work for you, learn some tricks from the master !
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Pappy on April 22, 2008, 07:13:42 am
Another beauty Gordon,you do some awsome work.Love it. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: GregB on April 22, 2008, 09:49:28 am
Beautiful bow Gordon! Every aspect of it looks good... ;)
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: TRACY on April 22, 2008, 10:01:35 am
Looks great! Tiller looks to be dead on. Very nicely done.

Tracy
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Jesse on April 22, 2008, 10:08:32 am
Looks like another beauty. Good job.  Jesse
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: ber643 on April 22, 2008, 10:24:02 am
Certainly looks like a real "Gordon" to me too. Love the look of the wood color combos also. Since you say you aren't "Entirely satisfied" with the outcome, Gordon, I'm going to lend you one of my dear (really), late Mother-In-Law's wise sayings, always said in a soft, gentle voice, "Well, he can just darned well get happy in the same trousers he got sad in!" (Bless her heart.)  :D
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Drew on April 22, 2008, 11:53:33 am
Beautiful bow as usual Gordon! I always enjoy seeing every work of art you make....

Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: medicinewheel on April 22, 2008, 12:04:01 pm

hi gordon! - that is a really nice bow and even with a bit of stringfollow she should shoot just great!
how did you build your riser??
frank
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: stiknstring on April 22, 2008, 12:11:38 pm
Gordon-

Dont listen to those other guys.  Send it to a guy in Montana.  You have my address already lol. 

On a serious note, even your self admitted unsatisfactory attempt is better than most of our first string bows.  I llike the full drawn shape of her.  If you want me to though (still on a serious note here) I could take it up after elk this year.... ;D
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: deerhunter97370 on April 22, 2008, 12:14:58 pm
Great bow as always. Joel
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Pat B on April 22, 2008, 12:19:29 pm
Another beauty Gordon.  You, as the rest of us are way too critical about our own work. From where I sit, she looks pretty good. If you hadn't mentioned anything, nobody would know different. ;) 8)     Pat
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: PeteC on April 22, 2008, 12:22:47 pm
I like it Gordon,another beauty. God Bless            PeteC
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Keenan on April 22, 2008, 12:23:15 pm
Wow Gordon, I knew you had something grand up your sleave. ;D Incredible bow as expected from you. I love the color combo and I know your not completely satisfied so just bring it over to our Central Oregon gathering and I'll fix it for you.  >:D You'll never have to look at that terrible thing again. ;D ;D  Just love looking at your bows Gordon ,they are always a treat.   Keenan
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: tom sawyer on April 22, 2008, 12:27:59 pm
Nice contrast in colors, and walnut being fairly low density ought to make it ideal for a center lam.  Looks like a good result to me, you certainly aren't pulling all the reflex out of those outer limbs at full draw though.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: snedeker on April 22, 2008, 12:36:31 pm
Nice.  That is an impressive draw weight for walnut and yew at that width I would think.

Dave
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: DanaM on April 22, 2008, 12:44:40 pm
Looks nice Gordon
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: OldBow on April 22, 2008, 01:08:24 pm
I think the posters of laminates for April are saying "Ah Nuts - Gordon Submitted a Bow" :-\
Actually, there are five really fine bows in this category for April. :)
Great Bow Gordon. We'll look at next for when we vote.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: DCM on April 22, 2008, 01:19:30 pm
Beautiful bow as usual Gordon.

I've made a bunch of r/d bows and to be honest I find the ones that lay 1 an or so of string follow rested are all around as good or better than the ones retaining 1 or 2 of reflex.  You still have great string angle and depending upon how much actual set from crushing, versus how much induced initially, the bows can be as fast as some of the more radical ones.  For some reason those deflexed bows which stand like a V at brace make a ton of early weight.  I bet it's quiet, and fast with the lower sg cores.

But I know what you mean, when you start out on a project and don't finsih with what you had in your mind's eye.

Nice bow.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: tom sawyer on April 22, 2008, 01:33:28 pm
Interesting observation about string angle at brace and its effect on early draw weight.  You'd expect that the lower the angle between string and tip, the more tension on the string.  But I would almost think it'd make the draw even easier by increasing the lever action.

I do favor a straight-limb profile at brace on those R/D bows.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Dano on April 22, 2008, 01:34:29 pm
A fine first attempt Gordon. I wish my third attempt looked that good. :'(
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Hillbilly on April 22, 2008, 01:45:03 pm
Sweet looking bow, Gordon.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2008, 02:07:10 pm
Marius, it does shoot rather nicely. But, to be honest, 60# is at the upper end of my comfort range. But I wanted a weapon that was suitable for elk hunting.

Manny, if I decide to make some money doing this you will be one of the first persons I call for help.

Thank you Pappy and Greg.

I’m not sure on the tiller. I think Lennie has a point about preferring a straight profile at brace. That said, I was worried if I let it bend further, more reflex would pull out. So I just tillered it my usual way by reducing the limb thickness evenly from the fades to about 4” off the tips. It seemed to work okay.

Bernie, I would have loved to meet your mother-in-law. It sounds like she was a real hoot! …and very wise

Thank you Drew and Jesse.

Frank, for the riser I put a yew power-lam between the core and the backing. I don’t know if it really added anything to the bow, but it looks cool.

I do have your address Nathan and am looking forward to doing some fishing in your area. Don’t be surprised if I turn up on your doorstep!

Thank you Joel and Pete.

Thank you Pat, but some folks would surely have noticed. And I know I can do better now that I have a little experience under my belt.
Keenan, I will bring it to the Central Coast gathering. The guys in my group can’t wait for that. Will any of your folks be there earlier in the week?

Lennie, I’ve seen both straight and slightly reflexed profiles at full draw. Being new to this, I’m not really sure which is best. I was at John Strunk’s shop the other day and I noticed he keeps the reflexed areas a bit thicker on his r/d bows. He said he does that to keep the reflex from pulling out. I thought that might put undue stress on the inner limbs, but his unbraced profiles looked fine. So much to learn…

Thank you Dave. Do you think the bow might have benefited from wider limbs? I was worried that if I made the limbs too wide the backing would overpower the belly.

Thank you Yooper.

Don, it seems that the entries for the laminate category are getting better each month. At this rate it won’t be long before it is as competitive as the self-bow category.

Thank you David. I did have a result in mind, but I’ve learned that the wood sometimes has its own ideas and it is best not to fight it too much.

Thank you Dano and Hillbilly.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Rich Saffold on April 22, 2008, 02:22:04 pm
Gordon, I'm with what David (DCM) said 100%, and I intentionally have most of my bows which leave my hands look like the tiller on your bow..It is hard visually to accept initially, but when judging by shot quality it changes things ;D..

Of course it's a beauty , and a great mix of woods to look at..

One little trick I do on tri-lams is to first glue the belly and core up into an r/d profile, and when its dried then I glue on the belly, but I amplify the arc a bit more perhaps getting the tips into reflex on this glue up..I have got my highest speeds with this trick, but also the sweetest shooting bows.

Rich-

Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: koan on April 22, 2008, 02:29:16 pm
Great bow Gordon!....Brian
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2008, 02:44:11 pm
Quote
One little trick I do on tri-lams is to first glue the belly and core up into an r/d profile, and when its dried then I glue on the belly,

Did you mean to say that you glue the backing and the core first? I'm a little confused by your description - would you mind clarifying?

Thank you Brian.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Ryano on April 22, 2008, 03:28:32 pm
Thats a pretty bow Gordon. One of the fastest long bows I ever made has the same unstrung profile as that bow.  ;D
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: BryanB on April 22, 2008, 03:50:22 pm
Gordon-
Great looking bow.  I'm glad it turned out so nice.
Bryan
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2008, 04:00:52 pm
Ryan, I don't know how fast it is, but it does seem to bury an ash arrow deeper into my bail than any of the other home-made bows on my rack.

Thank you Bryan. BTW when are we going hunting? I can't wait to see you stick a turkey with that new bow of yours. There are turkeys out there, right?  ;D

Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Justin Snyder on April 22, 2008, 04:25:04 pm
Great looking bow Gordon, but we wouldn't expect less from you. Justin
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: snedeker on April 22, 2008, 05:26:24 pm
I think the width is great as is.  My point was that it was a good outcome.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Dustybaer on April 22, 2008, 06:15:01 pm
Do you think the bow might have benefited from wider limbs? I was worried that if I made the limbs too wide the backing would overpower the belly.

have you considered traping the limbs? as in making the belly wider then the backing? or using higher crown bamboo?  just a thought
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Jesse on April 22, 2008, 08:26:18 pm
Gordon you should shoot that thing through a crono. Im really curious to know how fast it is. We both have r/d laminated bows drawing 60#@27".  It would be interesting  and educational to see the difference in performance.  Jesse
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Shaun on April 22, 2008, 09:33:52 pm
Nice blend of woods and I could look at your full draw pics all day, what a tiller!
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: david w. on April 22, 2008, 09:42:16 pm
wow gordon you are one of the best bowyers i have ever seen
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: ricktrojanowski on April 22, 2008, 09:48:21 pm
Another beauty,  You do some amazing work.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2008, 09:50:30 pm
Justin, thank you.

Marius, I trapped the backing somewhat, but probably not enough to make much of a difference. I imagine that sooner or later I will explore more radical approaches.

Jesse, I don't own a chrono, but maybe it's time to get one so I can more objectively evaluate my designs.

Thank you Shaun, David and Rick for the compliments - I much appreciate it.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Rich Saffold on April 22, 2008, 11:54:24 pm
Gordon, Oops,. I glue the belly and the core up first, and when dry, I amplify the arc in the limbs a bit more and glue it up with the backing..

Rich

Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 23, 2008, 08:32:30 am
Bow turned out well Gordon. You did a fine job
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: horseapple on April 23, 2008, 11:24:20 am
Sweet bow Gordon, when I build a multi-lam bow I try and make the middle lam  .125" almost all of the multi-lam bows will hold more reflex than the simple two lam bows.  The Yew wood that I've had was around 5-6% moisture and will hold more reflex than my Osage bows and boy does the Yew bows shoot, they're so light in the hand that at first you think they're going to be a kids bow:) Also your tiller and attention to detail is excellent.  I'll send some pictures of a baleen bellied bow that I'm finishing up.

JD
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 23, 2008, 01:04:56 pm
Thanks Rich, I figured that's what you probably meant. I will have to try that.

Thank you Marc.

JD, that seems about right for a middle core thickness. I'm really interested in your baleen bellied bow. I can't wait to see the pictures.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: cowboy on April 23, 2008, 01:35:06 pm
Man, I'm missing a lot of stuff - don't have time to read through all (am at work). That bow is drop dead gorgeous - first attempt? Is there nothing you aren't good at? ;D..
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 23, 2008, 03:00:14 pm
Quote
Is there nothing you aren't good at?

Yea, hitting what I'm looking at   ::)

Thank you for the compliment Paul.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Dustybaer on April 23, 2008, 03:07:07 pm
Quote
Is there nothing you aren't good at?

Yea, hitting what I'm looking at   ::)

same here  >:( 

hey, maybe that means i'll become as good a bowyer as you one day.......NOT  ;D
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Mechslasher on April 23, 2008, 03:57:01 pm
a fine looking bow.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: jamie on April 23, 2008, 09:11:05 pm
excellent looking bow gordon. i actually prefer a bit of string follow in an r/d. itll still deliver the arrow with force but feels better in the hand
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 23, 2008, 11:32:38 pm
A little string follow certainly makes the bow nicer to brace. My first Boo backed bow holds about 2" of reflex and I about get a hernia when I try to brace it without a stringer.
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: radius on April 23, 2008, 11:51:54 pm
Gordon, a few of the guys who post on this forum display genuine talent and craftsmanship:  you are one of them.  I am reaching through time and space to try to absorb your skills...better watch out!
Title: Re: Bamboo backed black walnut and yew
Post by: Gordon on April 24, 2008, 12:14:13 am
Thank you Radius. I appreciate the sentiment behind your words, but there are a lot of folks who post on this site who are extremely talented and I find myself constantly in awe of what they create. I feel priviledged to be a small part of this amazing community that we have created here.

Thank you again for your kind words.