Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Russ on September 22, 2019, 03:16:03 pm

Title: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 22, 2019, 03:16:03 pm
My bow dropped 15 pounds in total since it was made. i was shooting it today and noticed after shooting an arrow that it wasnt as hard to pull it back. i weighed it and it was down ten pounds. I went inside for 10 minutes and came back and weighed it again. it dropped another 5. dont know what to think happened! maybe the humidity got to it. it just stormed last night but still. 5 pounds in 10 minutes.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: kbear on September 22, 2019, 03:24:12 pm
What are the specs Deerhunter? Specifically wood species? Did the brace height or tiller change? Pics?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Woodely on September 22, 2019, 03:31:18 pm
Seems like it was loaded with water.   To green.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Pat B on September 22, 2019, 03:49:43 pm
Is this the first change you've noticed since you first started shooting it?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 22, 2019, 04:24:02 pm
PatB I noticed that it was taking more set than it probably should have, about 2 1/2". the bend looked really good! also I was shooting when one of the limbs hit something plastic when it was shoot. didnt look bad so i didnt worry. dont think thats it though.

kbear the wood is Hophorn Beam, as i said, it took alot of set and i dont know if set changes the tiller but it still looked good. brace height lowered a little. ill try to get pics.

Woodly I hope not! The stave was seasoned but then Nebraska is very very humid like florida. It seems to be around 70% but then it rains and dropps to 50% after. should have put tru-oil on it instead of Watco.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: PatM on September 22, 2019, 05:28:06 pm
That's not normal.   Any pics of the design?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 22, 2019, 07:39:59 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,66331.msg932049.html#msg932049

Here
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: bassman on September 22, 2019, 08:55:00 pm
American Hornbeam always needs induced reflex,  and a deep belly heat treat to make a good bow.Hop Hornbeam may be the same, but I have never worked with it. You could still try it . It will help some.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: jeffp51 on September 22, 2019, 11:04:09 pm
Deerhunter, where do you live?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 23, 2019, 07:34:30 am
South East Nebraska
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: SLIMBOB on September 23, 2019, 07:53:21 am
That suggests that it is breaking down for some reason. A hinge, overdrawn for the length, or just a weakness in the wood quality.  I've never made one from HHB but I own an HHB made by GregB.  It seems to have no more tendency to pick up moisture than any other bow wood.  15 pounds lost is a bunch.  You said it's taking a lot of set.  Can you post an unbraced pic or 2?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 23, 2019, 08:38:36 am
yea i can get some pictures. ill get them after 5 o'clock central?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 23, 2019, 10:09:44 am
Sounds like the bow is getting fully drawn for the first time and it cant handle it based off design and/or tiller. Its not a humidity issue or a species issue. I have made many HHB bows and I live in humid city USA. All self bows lose a pound or two after being shot and/or braced for extended periods of time. 
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 23, 2019, 11:27:27 am
so its the design or the tiller? how does that work?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 23, 2019, 01:48:07 pm
Bows that aren't built to match a draw length take excessive set and lose poundage all the while.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: DC on September 23, 2019, 01:59:07 pm
Bows that aren't built to match a draw length
Can you expand on that a bit, PD? What do you do to match DL to the bow? 65" for a 26"DL seems ample to me?
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 23, 2019, 02:03:04 pm
I stick with a simple formula I learned from the start. Draw length multiplied by two plus 10" for the handle section. I do this for all bows that aren't sinew backed, regardless of species. On weaker woods I add width but never length. 
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: DC on September 23, 2019, 02:06:22 pm
Thanks, I thought there may be more. That still leaves him an inch proud.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on September 23, 2019, 02:13:48 pm
I see what bow it is now. Its long enough. Is it wide enough? The drawn pic looks much less than 26". If you decided to start full drawing now it may be taking on changes that would normally show themselves during the build. Humidity alone wont make a healthy bow drop 25% of its draw weight. That's a lot.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 23, 2019, 02:38:41 pm
Wait now that i think about it, I made this bow in may for a 26"draw. over the year I grew a lot. like 6"! maybe my draw length grew to 28"? how do you guys calculate draw length? I should have thought of that!!  (--) (--) :-K
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: DC on September 23, 2019, 02:48:44 pm
Us old farts never would have thought of growing ;D ;D. I still can't see a problem unless you're pulling 30" or so. Draw an arrow to your normal FD and get someone to mark the arrow at the back of the bow. If you don't have a someone mark the inches on an arrow and pull it in front of a mirror. You can read where the back of the bow is. I put the numbers in mirror image on the arrow so it shows up right in the mirror.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: bjrogg on September 23, 2019, 02:55:12 pm
I'm thinking it's the  HHB we worked on at Marshall. I'm thinking it should be plenty long and wide enough for 26" draw. Especially with straight tips. I didn't lookup the thread again but I'm agreeing with pearl. Seems like something else is going on. The last picture I saw of fulldraw looked very unstressed. Some pictures would maybe help. Did you ever seal a it with any finish? Did you shape handle? Did you change fades? Did you let anyone else draw it? Did you start drawing it further? Honestly it really seems like it could be drawn further but it may cause it to take more set. What is the draw weight now at 26"? If I remember correctly it was maybe around 45@26"? So now it's 30@26"?
Bjrogg
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Bayou Ben on September 23, 2019, 02:59:34 pm
And I saw you switched from split finger to 3 under shooting?  Your bow really should be tillered for the way you intend to shoot it.  The pull point is different between the 2 styles and will put different stresses on the limbs.  An already weak spot can turn into a hinge when the bow isn't balanced anymore.

Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: DC on September 23, 2019, 03:43:46 pm
We need the now pictures :D
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: SLIMBOB on September 23, 2019, 09:33:34 pm
Draw length is difficult to define. So many things are in play that it can vary greatly between 2 shooters with the same wing span. I go by arrow length. Nock an arrow, draw to your anchor point and have someone mark the arrow at the back of the handle at full draw. The length from the bottom of the nock to the point marked is your draw length...for that bow. Other styles of grips on different bows can cause that length to vary.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: bownarra on September 24, 2019, 12:37:50 am
Yes changing between split finger and 3 under is not the best idea. Altering drawlength the same.
But are you absolutely 100% certain it has lost 15#? I just can't see it losing that much if it was at all well tillered to start with. To lose 15# I would reckon you would need another 3 - 4 inches of set to have shown up....
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Badger on September 24, 2019, 06:36:11 am
 You can easily loose 15# with 2 1/2" set especially if a little moisture was added to the bow. Several years ago I went to a clout shoot where most of the guys were shooting English longbows that were marked anywhere from 90 to 125#. Most of the bows had taken close to 3" of set and were drawing what seemed to be about 25# less than what they were marked.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 24, 2019, 08:16:20 am
Ugh. well dang it. I don't really get how changing to three under would change a lot. I thought a well tillered bow would hold up to either.

My draw length may be 28 or 29 as when I draw, I draw to the very tip of the arrow and i think Clint's arrows that he gave me are around 28 or 29. Ill be getting pictures soon as my phone had some troubles.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Pat B on September 24, 2019, 09:18:48 am
Take a 1" square of cardboard with a hole just big enough for the arrow. Draw the arrow and the cardboard will slide down the shaft and show your draw length. Do this a few times concentrating on your normal draw to get an average.
 A simple method of checking your draw is to place a yard stick on your sternum with both arms extended in front holding the yardstick. The end of your fingers will give you a ballpark length for your draw length.
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 25, 2019, 08:11:35 am
Heres pics. The right side has about 2.5" and the left has 2
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: Russ on September 25, 2019, 08:23:49 am
Ugh I'm sorry guys. I made a big fuss over things. with an arrow on the bow im pulling 24". when I add the resistance of the bow i put my neck forward and don't draw back to 26". I bet I lost around 5-8# on set and then around 7-10 with my draw. without the resistance i'm around 26" because I don't have the resistance that makes me want to anchor 2" faster. also my stance is very square instead of sideways which makes me lose about 1" of draw. I'm going to put it on the tillering tree tonight to check my theory.

Bj, I sealed it with Watco natural oil. I shaped the handle for my fingers but didn't change it a lot, the handle kinda grew on me!  ;D  I did not change the fades. I don't let anyone draw it farther than I am comfortable, I normally stop them a little short.

I should have thought of under drawing instead of overdrawing.
Title: Re: dont know what to think? (Figured it out)
Post by: Russ on September 25, 2019, 06:00:15 pm
I checked it and its 43# at 26". I cant belive it took me 3 pages to find i have bad form!  (lol) wow i can really see my moods! I go from sad to frusturated to upset that i wasted your guyses time to laughing about having bad form. If i hadent said that im a teen, you guys would have probably guessed from that! Thank you guys for your time!

Oh about the set, there were two knots that kinda raised ome side up and lowered the other. Making it seem like there was alot of set.

Well wont make this mistake again! I hope im not frustrating you guys and thanks for your help!
Title: Re: dont know what to think?
Post by: SLIMBOB on September 25, 2019, 06:32:35 pm
Heck, this is all for entertainment purposes. Something was obviously not adding up from the get go. I figured your bow started at 40 or less. If it lost 15 pounds that is a nearing half the draw weight. Not very likely. Don’t sweat it. Keep at it and remember this 40 years from now when some youngster begins to test your tolerance for...this kinda thing. It’s all good.