Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: GregB on April 14, 2008, 02:34:12 pm

Title: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 14, 2008, 02:34:12 pm
Osage bow 65" ntn, 1-1/2" wide to mid limb to 3/8" tips. 47#@26" Buffalo horn tips with black snake skins.

This bow was obviously inspired by Gordon's beautiful examples of dyed bows he's made. I made this bow for one of my brothers. I had given him one of my early bows, and since then he's had shoulder surgery and can't handle the draw weight anymore. He recently asked me to make him another lighter weight bow. I tried to take my time on the finish work of this bow, but to be completely honest I'm dissatisfied with how the snake skins turned out.

The stave had a worm hole through one limb which was packed with osage dust and tbIII. The handle area had some checking and missing wood, causing me to build the handle up with leather. Grant (CastIron or more recently Ironpot) ;) threatened to use the stave to cook brats with in the early stages. I was tempted because I like brats, but we used hickory for that instead. ;)
I backed the bow with deerhide as added insurance against the worm hole through the limb. When I put the wet snake skins on, I wrapped them too tightly leaving an impression after drying of the ace bandage. Having the soft deer hide underneath contributed, and I had never put snake skins over hide before...hard learning lesson. I wanted to pass on this error so others hopefully won't make the same mistake I did. The pictures don't really show this flaw.

I'm please with the dye outcome for my first attempt, and will incorporate it into some future bows I'm sure. Again, thanks to Gordon for his build-along! Oh yeah, the bow shoots great...I'll take it if my brother doesn't want it. :)

Hope yall like it, Greg

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Title: Black Snake Bow (more pics)
Post by: GregB on April 14, 2008, 02:36:07 pm
Here's some more pic's! ;)

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Title: Re: Black Snake Bow (more pics)
Post by: Wolf Watcher on April 14, 2008, 02:45:06 pm
Wow!!  That bow is drop dead gorgous!  Watcher
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow (more pics)
Post by: Pat B on April 14, 2008, 02:48:22 pm
She's a beauty Greg. Tiller is right on too. Hope to get a close up view at the Classic.     Pat
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: DanaM on April 14, 2008, 02:54:07 pm
Greg I merged your two topics hope ya don't mind eh.
I like the bow a lot Greg, glad to see some snake skins that aren't rattler, and they go with the dye job quite nicely.
47#@26" is perfect BTW :)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 14, 2008, 03:02:33 pm
Thank you for the kind comment Wolf Watcher. Appreciate it Pat! If my brother hasn't taken it over yet, I'll try and have it there. Dana thanks alot for merging the two, I was hoping one of you kind moderators would do that! ;) Thanks Dana for the comments! :)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Canerod on April 14, 2008, 03:53:31 pm
Love the color scheme and the tiller looks dead on!
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Dustybaer on April 14, 2008, 04:22:12 pm
wow, greg.  the dye job is to die for  ;D  do you mind going into a little more detail on what you used and how you got those effects, especially at the fades?  she's absolutely beautiful.  by the way, nice quiver 'n arras there  ;D
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Hillbilly on April 14, 2008, 04:29:25 pm
Wow, Greg-that's a greeeeaaaatt looking bow-awesome all around.  :o You did a lot better job on the dye than my attempt at the same sceme:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hillbillync/My%20Bows/tinabowbelly.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: TRACY on April 14, 2008, 05:01:25 pm
I think it is a great bow Greg. I saw it in Pappy's pic in "Life is Good" earlier and he said you were gonna post it in bows later. I am also putting black rat snake skins on a snakey osage but won't be as pretty as your dyed bow. Wow, I thought I was liking the black/ yellow contrast of my bow until I saw this. Do you guys wrap all backings with ace bandage like in Pappy's pics?
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: AndrewS on April 14, 2008, 05:06:00 pm
Greg you build a absolutly nice bow, congrats! ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Justin Snyder on April 14, 2008, 05:12:53 pm
Nice dye job Greg,  I must say you are a quick learner on that.  How about some close ups of the flaws, because I sure don't see them.  Justin
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: 330bull on April 14, 2008, 06:17:23 pm
You just shattered the dreams of an other BOM contender for April.   ;)

Gorgeous!
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 14, 2008, 07:51:17 pm
Hey everyone, I really do appreciate the kind remarks!

Marius, the quiver belongs to Marks son Beau. I "borrowed" it to hopefully enhance a few of the pictures. I read over Gordons build along a couple of times before I started the dye work. I first put on the oxblood red dye going beyond where I actually intended to fade the two together. Make sure to wipe off the excess dye with a fine cloth before it has a chance to dry. I let the oxblood totally dry prior to adding the black dye. Where I wanted it solid black, I applied dye to that area first and stopped the edge just prior to where I wanted to fade the two together. I then took a fine cloth dipped in acetone (wrung out, not dripping)and very lightly pulled from the still undried black and attempted to blend it into the oxblood red. It takes a light touch, but the acetone is the key I think to getting the faded affect. Laquer thinner might would work the same as the acetone.

Thanks Hillbilly, I like your bow too though!  :)

Tracy, yes we've always wrapped snake skins with ace bandages. It probably isn't absolutely necessary, but I think it helps ensure the skins adhere well along the edges. But there is obviously risk involved at least when using a hide underneath as this bow has. This was the first time I'd used hide underneath the snake skin. When you have only the hard surface of the wood I haven't in the past had a problem with the ace bandages showing an impression.

Thanks Canerod, looks like Hillbilly had the idea before me! :)

Thanks Justin, Pappy says I'm to hard on myself in critiquing my work. I really wanted this one to turn out well just to show that wood with some cosmetic issues can still make a nice bow. Messing up on the snake skins was something I couldn't fix short of removing the skins. They were both road kills and took all last summer to come up with them. One was messed up forcing me to stop short of full length on the limbs. I had caught a large black snake last fall, and couldn't bring myself to use it...I let it go. :'(  I'll have to get with Pappy to take more pictures...as he has said before, I'm "to tight to buy a digital camera!". ;D

Don't give up on your BOM dreams Joe! So many nice bows get posted now it seems that it's a coin toss who might win. Makes it pretty sweet I would think if you do win, considering the great competition being displayed. ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: cowboy on April 14, 2008, 08:33:50 pm
That is an absolute all around beauty Greg! I almost thought that back was painted, but had a feelin it was snakeskins. The one and only time I used snakes, I kept working them out from head to tail (making sure all the bubbles were out) by the time I did that a few times, the tbIII was set up pretty good - so I left it without a wrap, didn't curl up at all. I wasn't too impressed with how the pattern was too dark on it either. I died the back dark brown before the skins, next time I'm going to leave it lighter - kinda like a skint snake, pinkish :).
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: kayakfisher on April 14, 2008, 08:44:15 pm
good lookin bow I kinda like the black snake skin
                                                  Dennis
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 14, 2008, 08:53:38 pm
Thanks Cowboy, I might leave the wrap off next time and see how it works out.  I appreciate it Dennis, I like the looks of a black snake skin also... ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Ryano on April 14, 2008, 11:05:14 pm
Greg, thats a hell of a nice looking bow. I've done dye jobs similar to that before, I like the way it looks but I just have a hard time covering up the natural color of osage. Theres just something about it.
 I'm like cowboy, I don't put any wraps over my snake skins, just put em on wet and work out the bubbles. Nice bow anyways Greg.
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Keenan on April 14, 2008, 11:09:39 pm
 Wow Very nice bow Greg. The colors, the unstrung profile, braced profile and overall package is awesome. You really nailed the tiller on that one as well and your stiching on the wrap is excellent.   We are often our own worst critics because we notice every little process that we could have done better. However the rest of us are inspiried to look at such a fine bow. Thanks for sharing.  Keenan
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Woodland Roamer on April 14, 2008, 11:12:22 pm
Wow that's a beauty Greg! That's the first bow I've seen with black snake skins and I like 'em. Tiller looks great as well as the finish and details.

Alan
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: ricktrojanowski on April 14, 2008, 11:36:32 pm
Wow!!! Absolutly beautiful. Great work
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: FlintWalker on April 15, 2008, 12:36:46 am
Greg, that bow is sharp as a tack! Awesome dye job and I love the full draw profile. She looks graceful ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: rattlesnake on April 15, 2008, 12:48:05 am
very , very , nice!!....snake
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: david w. on April 15, 2008, 12:48:45 am
that is absolutely GORGEAUS!
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: 1/2primitive on April 15, 2008, 01:26:04 am
Very neat bow! Looks deadly.  ;)
    Sean
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: El Destructo on April 15, 2008, 01:44:40 am
Greg...if you ever do another Rawhide Back Snakeskin Bow...like my Sycamore I had listed...and this Bow of Yours....try Hide Glue....and no Bandage wraps....as the Hide Glue dries...it will draw the Snakeskin down tight to the Rawhide....just make sure that you degrease the rawhide and scuff it up some.... I have never had a Problem yet with a Skin having Bubbles or letting go ...this way....By the way...very nice Bow....and I am holding off...yet another Month with my Plains Bow.....maybe I will just keep it to myself!!! ::)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: NOMADIC PIRATE on April 15, 2008, 03:17:05 am
NICE TILLER !!!!...and everything else  :)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Pappy on April 15, 2008, 07:08:14 am
Very nice Greg,I think I have seen that before.  ;) I can tell you guys/gals it not only looks great it shoot like it looks.Mighty fine job Greg. :)
    Pappy
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Dustybaer on April 15, 2008, 08:14:50 am
thanks greg, i'll have to try it on my next hickory project   like ryano, i like the color of osage too much, to hide it.  of course for people who drown in osage (like you and pappy) that's a different story  ;D

by the way, if you point out the flaws in that skin-job to your brother, you might be able to keep it  >:D  but since i couldn't discover any (you sure they exist and it's not only in your imagination?), it might not work after all   ;D
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 15, 2008, 09:28:18 am
Thank you very much all of you for your kind remarks. I really appreciate it and it means a lot coming from folks who enjoy and excel in bowyering. :)

I definitely won't wrap again when the skin is over hide. I'll probably try like you guys suggested and not wrap at all next time and see how it turns out. ;)

Thanks again,
Greg
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Ranger B on April 15, 2008, 09:43:09 am
Greg - Great looking bow but I especially like how you faded out the color to black at the tips.  Obviously, I watched you work on it earlier on and it's just awesome to see what was once just a stick get transformed into a beautiful bow. 
Jimmy
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 15, 2008, 09:51:11 am
Thank you Jimmy! You wouldn't be pulling another "April Fools" joke on me would ya? ;D  I still haven't got the hook out from swallowing it last time. ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: TRACY on April 15, 2008, 10:06:52 am
You mentioned using deerhide to back it. I'm assuming it was rawhide. What did you use to apply it and what did you use for the skins?

Thanks Tracy
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 15, 2008, 10:14:24 am
Tracy, the rawhide was applied with TBIII, and I used TBII on the skins. I would have used TBIII on the skins also, but was doing them by myself and TBIII sets up quicker. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of time to work out the excess glue and bubbles from under the skin while also wrapping it.

Greg
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: TRACY on April 15, 2008, 11:21:12 am
Thanks Greg. I asked because I'm putting skins on today and was thinking about using TBIII instead of preparing hide glue like I have in the past.

Thanks
Tracy
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Ryano on April 15, 2008, 11:54:03 am
Tracy, see my thread I just posted in the how to /build along section.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,6642.0.html
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 15, 2008, 12:32:22 pm
Excellent bow Greg.  Looks really good
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: adb on April 15, 2008, 12:38:47 pm
I don't know, Greg... looks pretty darn good to me! I think you should be proud of that one. I've done brown and black Cobra skins myself, and I think they look good. Not as much character as Rattlers, but they do have their place on the right bow. Your tiller looks spot-on, as well. Nice job on the tip flips, and the buffalo tip overlays are killer!
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Gordon on April 15, 2008, 01:47:11 pm
Wow Greg, that bow is drop dead gorgeous! Perfect tiller, beautiful stain and finish job, and I love the profile. Congratulations!
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: OldBow on April 15, 2008, 01:54:28 pm
Ditto Everybody. This is a serious contender for April Bow of the Month. Hope to see it at the Classic :P
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 15, 2008, 03:29:16 pm
Your welcome Tracy, might also check out Ryan's posting in the build along section.

Thank you Marc! You make great looking and performing bows, I admire your work! ;)

I appreciate it Gordon, you know this bow was inspired by several of yours I've seen...you're passing it on! :)

I really appreciate the nice comments adb3112 (name?) :),  means a lot! :)

Thanks OldBow, I'll try and have it at the Classic if my brother will give it up for a while.  ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Dane on April 15, 2008, 04:34:44 pm
Greg, an outstanding bow. You seem to be like me, too hard on yourself. It looks just awesome. I will be totally honest with you and the board in that I would never do a snakeskin finish on my own bows - guess I am a city kid, and snakes still kind of creep me out.

But, I admire snakeskins a lot of you guys use. The recurves look graceful - looks like a great shooter. Your bro is very lucky.

Dane

Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 15, 2008, 06:15:17 pm
Thank you Dane, I appreciate your comments! I probably am hard on myself...my heart dropped when I removed those ace bandages...everything else had worked out well.
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: RG on April 15, 2008, 09:36:41 pm
I saw it up close and even got to touch it great job Greg

Ron
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: hawkbow on April 15, 2008, 10:35:08 pm
WOW! brother you sure make me wish i could build a bow like that... ;) excellent craftsmanship!  if you need to find a home for her I take in wayward bows, especially ones that look and pull like that one .. ;D ;D  ;) great bow and thanks for sharing Hawk a/ho
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: recurve shooter on April 15, 2008, 10:40:38 pm
amazeing bow. i do good to make a survival bow. :P
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: radius on April 15, 2008, 11:06:02 pm
what does "cook brats" mean?
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: cowboy on April 15, 2008, 11:08:31 pm
Firewood - cook bratwurst sausages with em ;D.
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: OldBow on April 15, 2008, 11:33:59 pm

I really appreciate the nice comments adb3112 (name?) :),  means a lot! :)

adb3112 is Adam Beck of  Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, CANADA
 His Bamboo backed Ipe is February's Laminant Bow of the Month
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,5272.0.html
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: ahawi stick on April 16, 2008, 12:49:29 am
Cant say anything that hasn't already been said , I like everything about her , especially the curves and dye job. The black snake really sets it off, great job! 8)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Rich Saffold on April 16, 2008, 04:00:43 am
Greg, Excellent! 8). I get inspired when I see Gordon's bows too ;)

Rich
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: medicinewheel on April 16, 2008, 06:50:33 am

WOW greg! that bow is one real beauty!!! did you dye the snakeskins (maybe someone asked already...don't have time to check all the way through right now!)
frank
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 16, 2008, 09:36:07 am
Thanks Ron! I got the first part of our project finished...think you'll like it! ;) Forgot to carry the second part of our project home with me...I'll get it this weekend and should finish it Sunday.

Cowboy's right, I like eating brats...but not enough to fuel the fire with my bow! ;D

Recurve Shooter, I'm sure you make a great bow...you're on the best website there is for getting help on bow making. I continually am looking and asking questions.

Thanks OldBow...thank you Adam from way up north!

I appreciate it ahawi stick, I like the color scheme although I can't take credit for being the first...Hillbilly I know has done the same colors before, and probably Gordon and others.

Thanks Rich! Gordon's bows are as artistic as they are good shooting bows.

I appreciate it Frank, really liked your Copper head bow last month! The snakes were roadkill blacksnakes obviously with blackskins. I had to touch up the skins some due to damage and even had to patch in a small piece that was missing. I would have gone full length with the skins on the limbs if the skins would have allowed it. If you look at Pappy's "Life is Good" thread from last weekend, you'll see another black snake I found just outside the gate of the club Friday afternoon when I was driving over. See how damaged that one is? It took me all last summer to come up with the two snakes I used on this bow. :)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Hillbilly on April 16, 2008, 12:32:18 pm
Quote
I like the color scheme although I can't take credit for being the first...Hillbilly I know has done the same colors before, and probably Gordon and others.

Greg, I didn't come up with it either, I copied it from somebody else that posted one several years ago. Yours is one of the best ones I've seen, though-I love that deep red color you got. Did you use Fiebings leather dye? What color? Oxblood?
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: DCM on April 16, 2008, 01:02:48 pm
Very nicely done Greg.
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 16, 2008, 02:35:40 pm
Quote
Greg, I didn't come up with it either, I copied it from somebody else that posted one several years ago. Yours is one of the best ones I've seen, though-I love that deep red color you got. Did you use Fiebings leather dye? What color? Oxblood?

Hillbilly...Fiebings, and yes I used oxblood. :)

Thank you DCM!
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: bowkill on April 16, 2008, 04:54:19 pm
Could you please explain how you recurved the limbs, or sombody post a link to a post that shows how that is done?
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Slivershooter on April 17, 2008, 01:01:56 am
GregB, Excellent bow!!

Bowkill, here is the link to Gordons build along that inspired GregB's bow.  If I remember correctly, Gordon used steam to bend his bow.

Walt Francis
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 17, 2008, 10:08:28 am
Thanks Slivershooter!

Bowkill, with seasoned wood we usually use dry heat for bending. This bow was tillered out to around 22-23" or so without the tips being recurved...the bow had been previously straightened with a couple of inches of reflex added. I had made a form from wood with the curvature for recurving tips one tip at a time. I used this form clamping the bows limb to the form while leaving the tips free to be heated with a heat gun and slowing bent to shape using the trigger style quick adjust clamps. The wood is allowed to cool and given a couple of days before going back to the tillering tree to complete the tillering. :)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Pappy on April 21, 2008, 08:03:09 am
Got to see this one perform this weekend and man Greg is shooting it good,to bad he is
giving it to his brother,He may want to hold on to it until the Classic is over.  :)
   Pappy

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Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 22, 2008, 10:13:05 am
I think my brother may have to wait on receiving his gift until after the Classic. I enjoy shooting this one... ;)
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: Dingleberry on April 22, 2008, 11:04:33 am
Sweet bow, Greg.  Love that color scheme.  Can't wait to see it at the Classic.  :)  "See you later, really good bow maker"
Title: Re: Black Snake Bow
Post by: GregB on April 22, 2008, 03:11:34 pm
Thank you Jonathan...I plan to have it there. :)