Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: dylanholderman on August 07, 2019, 06:26:52 pm
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So I was wondering if it’s possible to make a wood and sinew bow with the same strung profile of a horn bow and get decent performance out of it.
I’m talking typical reflex for a sinew bow and typical performance, I’m not expecting horn bow performance but I’d like the look of and size of a horn bow if possible.
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And I just realized I put this in the wrong forum, can a mod move it to the bow section please?
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So I was wondering if it’s possible to make a wood and sinew bow with the same strung profile of a horn bow and get decent performance out of it.
I’m talking typical reflex for a sinew bow and typical performance, I’m not expecting horn bow performance but I’d like the look of and size of a horn bow if possible.
I'm vain, I admit my faults.... BUT..... I just cant help but think of me when you mention this. I have been working on this very idea now for years. I feel like I nailed it. Ok, I'm gonna get off of tooting my own horn before I break the button. I'm gonna find that link to show you...
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,61463.15.html
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I have been dedicating g my efforts to making self bows without sinew in the size range of horn bows and the results give you darn good performance, but not quite the look of a horn bow. Are you determined to use sinew?
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James Parker made one with boo back, tempered (black) boo belly with a core lam that is a very fast bow. I think you could and mulberry would be a good wood choice because it is strong, springy and physically light. I believe it was a traditional core wood for some Asiatic horn bows. I'd make the limbs wide(2") all the way out to the sayahs(sp) and add 3" to 4" of reflex, strung backwards for sinewing and curing. Sayah length could be critical as not to crush the belly. That's where the horn comes in.
There was an old PA Magazine article about a hornless horn bow years ago. You might be able to search for it.
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James Parker made one with boo back, tempered (black) boo belly with a core lam that is a very fast bow. I think you could and mulberry would be a good wood choice because it is strong, springy and physically light. I believe it was a traditional core wood for some Asiatic horn bows. I'd make the limbs wide(2") all the way out to the sayahs(sp) and add 3" to 4" of reflex, strung backwards for sinewing and curing. Sayah length could be critical as not to crush the belly. That's where the horn comes in.
There was an old PA Magazine article about a hornless horn bow years ago. You might be able to search for it.
Is there a link to James' bow? I want to see that. I just started working on bamboo backed and belly laminate bows in the style if horse bows. I'd enjoy seeing this one.
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Generally speaking the answer is no. Horn bows look like horn bows and wood bows look like wood bows because they have different materials that works very differently. Anytime you put form before function you will sacrifice something
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Generally speaking the answer is no. Horn bows look like horn bows and wood bows look like wood bows because they have different materials that works very differently. Anytime you put form before function you will sacrifice something
Which is why I haven't built another one like the one I posted. The design has changed as the materials have indicated they dont like being used this way.
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As long as you make it the design of one of the many horn composite bows which match what wood and sinew can handle you will be fine.
A sinew backed medium length recurve is doing all the same things and many people make them with no trouble.
As soon as someone brings this topic up everyone starts talking Turkish flight bows as the only known horn bow in existence.
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Pat if a horn sinew bow copies of wood bow design of course you can copy that with a wood bow
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As long as you make it the design of one of the many horn composite bows which match what wood and sinew can handle you will be fine.
A sinew backed medium length recurve is doing all the same things and many people make them with no trouble.
As soon as someone brings this topic up everyone starts talking Turkish flight bows as the only known horn bow in existence.
To be fair, it is the most often discussed and famous. It is what first comes to my mind.
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Any decent hornbow will have a short bending limb or a huge drawlngth - try to do that with wood and you will see what set and chrysals are!
I find it so funny when people argue that you could make 'a hornbow' out of wood.....
You would have to either vastly reduce drawlength and/or increase bending limb and then not care that it doesn't look like or bend like the hornbow that you are trying to copy.
As Badger says the materials are vastly different = there is your answer. ;)
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See, That's what I'm talking about. Stick around a bit longer this time, Mikey. ;)
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I believe what Dylan's question was can a wood/sinew bow be made that CAN LOOK like a horn bow not will it perform like a horn bow. Yes, you can make a wood/sinew that looks like a horn bow and I think it can be a good shooting bow.
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I believe what Dylan's question was can a wood/sinew bow be made that CAN LOOK like a horn bow not will it perform like a horn bow. Yes, you can make a wood/sinew that looks like a horn bow and I think it can be a good shooting bow.
Agreed, but it's not easy, and I believe there a slightly different designs that can achieve better results in performance if your goal isn't to stick to a horn bow appearance.
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I believe what Dylan's question was can a wood/sinew bow be made that CAN LOOK like a horn bow not will it perform like a horn bow. Yes, you can make a wood/sinew that looks like a horn bow and I think it can be a good shooting bow.
Thank you pat that is exactly what I’m asking, it’s for re-enactment and probably around 30-40 lbs.
I’m not chasing numbers if it’s on par with a decent self bow of the same poundage I’ll be happy with it.
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I believe what Dylan's question was can a wood/sinew bow be made that CAN LOOK like a horn bow not will it perform like a horn bow. Yes, you can make a wood/sinew that looks like a horn bow and I think it can be a good shooting bow.
Thank you pat that is exactly what I’m asking, it’s for re-enactment and probably around 30-40 lbs.
I’m not chasing numbers if it’s on par with a decent self bow of the same poundage I’ll be happy with it.
It can be done, Its not easy, but you have plenty of resources here to help. The best start would be to post a picture or a link to an image ( if the link is something for sale, break the link so as not to violate rules here ) of what you are wanting to replicate with wood and sinew. What bow do you want it to look like?
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On the contrary it's quite easy to make one and the numbers achieved will be largely indistinguishable.
Many guys are now making composite bows and publishing their numbers. The bows which relatively exceed wood or wood/sinew bows are as rare as unicorn sinew.
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On the contrary it's quite easy to make one and the numbers achieved will be largely indistinguishable.
Many guys are now making composite bows and publishing their numbers. The bows which relatively exceed wood or wood/sinew bows are as rare as unicorn sinew.
Well, looks like I'm going to learn from this thread also. I'd like to know more Pat....
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Pick a design best suited to wood and sinew, make the bow as long as the longer known examples of the design.
Then just follow typical good bow making techniques.
Draw the bow to the max and use the same type of arrows they tended to actually use back in the day with composite bows.
The fact that composites tended to have more reflex and longer draws is not really relevant unless you are actually going to change your typical draw length.
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I’ll start once I get home, I’m at a big re-enactment right now.
I think I have some mulberry at home that would make a good body for this project, and if it’s not clean enough I have some Osage too.
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ok So do we have any idea what mongol and Roman bows looked like?
All I can find online is ugly leather covered glass bows with a frigin 2x4 If a tip glued on to the end ::) :-\
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There's plenty of pictures now available of authentic ancient era Mongol bows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTnGce3FXDo
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Ok so like a Chinese bow but the tips are at a less severe angle.
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In their original design that's more or less true. Magyar and Hun bows are also decent models to copy.
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There's plenty of pictures now available of authentic ancient era Mongol bows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTnGce3FXDo
That had to be the absolute most mesmerizing video I have ever seen.
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That's been posted a couple of times here. Everyone enjoys it.
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(https://i.imgur.com/OH1CVAS.jpg)
here's where i'm at on this project right now, mulberry limbs (way oversized) walnut grip overall length is 57'' aiming for 55'' ntn
still need to steam the splices, because my skill in cutting them isn't so great i found out.
and bend the tips.
also i roughed out and reflexed the handles on two plains bows 47'' and 40'' tip to tip respectively
(https://i.imgur.com/y2F0ARt.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/OH1CVAS.jpg)
here's where i'm at on this project right now, mulberry limbs (way oversized) walnut grip overall length is 57'' aiming for 55'' ntn
still need to steam the splices, because my skill in cutting them isn't so great i found out.
and bend the tips.
also i roughed out and reflexed the handles on two plains bows 47'' and 40'' tip to tip respectively
(https://i.imgur.com/y2F0ARt.jpg)
It's nice to see you making progress, splice doesn't look bad...
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From about 4’ O:) it needs steamed and clamped before I’m willing to put glue in it.
Thank you for the encouragement.
I’m wondering if I should soak the limbs for a day or two before flipping the tips?
The form I made only has a 40 degree reflex but I’m planning on leaving them fairly thick before bending in order to have the right shape.