Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: NOMADIC PIRATE on April 12, 2008, 06:54:12 am
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I'm working on a bow for a possible B.I.T.H. over at Paleoplanet, the problem is that it has several pin holes from powder bugs on the belly and quite a bit of damage from a grub on the back, I filled the back damage with a paste made fromTB III and guava dust, the pin holes with superglue and dust, I'll put a little sinew patch on the back too.
What do you think, will it make it ?
Suggestions ? advices ? tricks ?....prayers ? :D :D
Thanks
M
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/007-3.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/005-2.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/006-2.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001-1-2.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/003-1.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002-1-2.jpg)
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Manny, I'll be watching this closely. That stave looks similar to the snaky guava you sent me. Mine doesn't have the big grub trails on the back but plenty of the smaller pins.
I'm just finishing up with the second stave I got from you and it has made a great bow. I'll be posting pics soon. Pat
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I would back the entire thing with rawhide. Not because I know anything about bug damage, but because the back is compromised and I would like to see a nice evenly protected back. I like the entire back to have even tension properties also. Justin
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I'm with Justin on the rawhide, I say BOW!!!
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This aught to be interesting. I have some hick staves that look a little like that - will be watching, hope your successful :).
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manny iv had a few staves do the same with those worms i took one a while back and took a small drill bit about the size of the hole stuck it in there and removerd a bit of the bad soft stuff i then took a piece of wood slimar to what i was using and mixed a small batch of bow grip and mixed the fine sawdust dust into it and filled the hole s after it dryed i saned a bit and featherd the holes then backed it with rawhide like justin says iv had this bow 3 years after a few thousand shot s it still shoot s might try that it s worked for me and iv got a osage stave thta has fw holes now fix to try it again hope that helps
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Manny It to nice of stave to to give a best effort. ;D Total confidence in you Bro, You can do it ;D Warm up the super glue so it flows real good back some saw dust in the holes (part way) add glue, add more saw dust more glue untill filled. Also use semi coarse saw dust , If it's to fine it kegs up and dosen't let the glue through as well. Definate ly back it with something. Looking foward to it. If you can pull it off that will be one heck of a head turner ;D
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I've being trying to find a way to avoid backing it because it has such a beautifull high knot on the upper limb that I wanted to stay free, but you guys are rigth, I'm probably better of backing it.
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Manny....where is the Damage on the Back???? There are no pictures of the whole Bow Back to see where this is located....I had a Piece of Sage that was compromised like this on the Back....I Chased it down to a good thick ring....then I Rawhided only the Center like 12 inches of each Limb to strengthen the Damage ...and keep the Back looking Uniform...thats why I did both Limbs....but I didn't go all the way out on them....I saw no reason to ....the Damage was localized to one limb at midway....You may give this a Thought....doing this doesn't mess too much with tillering it either...because rawhide doesn't add too much to the Bow's Strength anyways........good luck Dude....I really love the way you shape dem Bowz...so artistic with dat Rasp!!!! Oops da Yooper just cud'nt be held in no more!!! >:D
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Yopper, In the bottom outher limb, I'm thinking to just do a partial backing too.
Pat,
if I was you I'd get to work on that stave rigth away, this morning while working mine new tunnels just keept appearing, there no telling how much damage inside that limb,...gotta run to work now, but I'll post pictures when I get back
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The little holes on the belly shouldn't be a problem if you fill them. With regard to the back, I agree with the others - it needs a backing.
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While I was working the stave this morning all kinds of new tunnel kept popping up, there's no telling how extensive the damage is or how much real wood is left.
I'm thinking to pike the bow and make it assymetrical so I can take of a bit more from the lower limb.
I'll back it, but only the outher limbs, I wanna keep the knot free.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/007-2.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/005-4.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/006-3.jpg)
The knot
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001-1-3.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/004-3.jpg)
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Wow. I hope this turns out. Knowing your sill, Manny, I'd give it a good chance or surviving. I've seen some neat bows come from nasty looking stock at your workshop. If it was me, however, it'd be a miracle if it actually held. ::)
Sean
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I've got a bunch of hickory staves that are wormy like that-I use them to cook steaks, barbecue, and brats. ;D
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Manny ....if anyone can pull this Off it's you...... Why don't you soak that thing down with some Dursban or Malathion....to kill them damned Borers....before all you have left is Swiss Cheese Hawaiian Style!!!
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guys if ya go to ur local farm store buy a jug of permycitin cattle spray ,, rub ,, put it in ur pump lawns sprayer spray all ur staves when ya cut em this problem is gone iv seen 1 stave that had 2 tiny worm knots in it after 5 years ,,,,, 16 . bucks for that can of cow spray is money well spent ;D
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There Ya go ....another Good Ole Boy ...with yet another simple Solution.....
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Dursban, Malathion and Permycitio are not simple solutions! They are complex compounds that should not be taken lightly. How many actually read the labels and heed their warnings or cautions. These chemicals are one answer to the problem if the proper precaution are applied but there are other methods that are less detrimental to humans. The best way to eliminate the insect problem is to not take more wood than you can deal properly with in a reasonable time. If you happen to get an abundance of wood then be ready for a long hard working period to get a satisfactory final result.
The reason I bring this up is because I had a pesticide license for commercial landscape use. I was well trained in their use and made the personal decision not to use them because I wasn't ready for the responsibility that came along with that license and their use. Most mishandling of pesticides is the result of uninformed personal use, not professionals. It is easy to go to the garden store and purchase these products and to do what the advertisers or your bowyer friends tell you to do with it. The label on the bottle tells you what you must do to protect yourself and our environment.
These chemicals will and do work on the stave bore problem so if you must use them do so with caution and above all read and obey the label. ;) Pat
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You can spray them down with a good concentrated soap and that will keep them off too.
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but it wont get rid of ehat is already there.....another way is to reduce the Stave down to semi Bow Form....and cover the whole thing in Spar Varnish..... ::)
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...or remove the bark and sap wood and seal the back.You don't have to reduce the stave to almost bow size. Most of these insects are in the egg stage in the bark when we cut the wood. When the tree dies(staves cut) it triggers the hatching of the eggs and the munching begins. You could completely coat the log in wax or other impermiable materials and kill the insects but it would never dry and then fungi would be your problem.
The main reason I wrote what I did was to inform folks that these pesticides are dangerous chemicals. Most pesticides take 10 years of research and over $10,000,000 before they can earn a label for use in our environment. A pesticide label is the most expensive written document in the USA today and for good reason, public and environmental safety! As I said, if you want to use these products, that is your decision to make...but please read and follow the labels dirrection for use, storage and disposal. Pat
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Oh...I am hearing you Pat....I have a Neighbor that Sprayed Yards for Bugs and Weeds....and He never wore a Respirator for any of it...and like you said you have to be licensed and have training to be doing this as a Business....and he knew better....but now He has all kinds of nervous Ticks and respiratory problems associated to the Chemicals that He sprayed....so do be careful....and don't mix more than you can use....I have seen people that just empty their Spray Bottles on the Street in front of their Homes...or in a City Sewer Drain....thats a No No....and it kills Dana's Bugs at His Sewerage Plant too!!
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Pat, you're right, I just went for my first wood harvest this week, and I'm making sure I get all the staves debarked and prepped, and I'll always do that from now on, it's not fun losing wood to bugs >:(
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Manny, The bow I am completing now is the straighter of the 2 I got from you. It had some small powder tunnels in it but they were worked out as I built the bow. I never even saw an entrance hole. ???
The snaky one, similar to the one you have here, had small holes in it that I filled with super glue and saw dust but I've done no more with it. I will check it out and see whats up with it.
There is a lot more to wood bow building than just making shavings. ;) Pat
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can't wait to see it, ....yeas a lot more ;D
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I'm with Pat-I never thought much about that stuff until I was going through the process of getting a pesticide license and starting learning about what's actually in that stuff and what it'll do to you. I've held a pesticide license for nearly fifteen years, and hardly ever use the stuff. I've never had a problem with bugs in staves that I debarked, but I had a bunch ruined last year that I stored with the bark still on them.
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Beautiful piece of wood.I, like most of the rest would for sure back it,I would also fill the worm holes with super glue and sawdust,pack them full,that has worked for us on some Osage we had the same
problem with.Good luck on that one,and I bet you can get a pretty cool bow out of it. :)
Pappy
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...Well I piked the bow to make it a 60" ntn, made it assymetrical to, so i could take of more from the mainly damaged bottom limb.
Worked on it a bit the last couple of days in between projects, the more wood i took of, the more tunnels appeared, than today a rasped a worm still alive and working, i was just about to toss it in the firewood pile with the 4 I had to put there this week (this makes about 2 dozen staves ruined by bugs)...when it hit me, .."LETS COOK THE BUGGERS"
I just finished thempering the all bow , handle and all, any bug that was still doing damage should be by now well baked ;D
there;s no telling the damage in those limbs, can't tell how much good wood is left,...there a good chance this bow won't make it,...but I'm surely giving it my best effort ;D...this peace of wood is to beautyful not to.
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I feel your pain Manny, I had the finest looking plum stave turn out to be full of grubs which grew up inside the wood. I tried until it blew..
The good thing is by the time you read this, your beast of a blank will be on the boat heading your way..I guarantee there are no worms holes in it! ;D
Rich
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Manny, I had a large worm hole through the top limb of the black snake bow I just posted. Filled with tbIII and dust, plus deer rawhide backed it. No problems...
Your's looks to be much more severe then my bow.
Greg
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Rich, can't wait to get my hand on that blank, really wanna make a 80-85# hunting bow
This is what the limb looks like today after some more work,..i really don't know how much good wood is ther left :o :o :o
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001-2-1.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002-2-1.jpg)
...It surely would make a nice wallhanger ;D ;D
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/003-2-1.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/004-4-1.jpg)
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I would not give it up without a fight....fill what you can...and back it....I bet you can pull off another great Bow!! ;)
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I had to stop taking wood of, even if instincts would tell me to keep rasping untill the holes disappeared, but wood was becoming scarce ;)
filled the holes the best I could.
floor tillered her extensively, and even got so bold thet I bend some curve on the damaged limb ;D ;D
Next is a sinew patch on the hole in the back, a bit of cotton backing for protection, and the tillering begins
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002-4.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001-4-1.jpg)
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Manny...I am more interested in what you laid next to this Bow in the Pictures......what gives????
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Damn !!..you not supposed to have seen that one. that's an experimental project, I should start tillering this weekend, I was going to start a thread about it next ::)
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Tell me that's a skin from a real leopard you backed that with...a leopard you killed with your bare hands...because if it's leopard print fabric, I think you've just lost all semblance of manliness. Or you're a true child of the 80's. I'm not sure which is worse. :o
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I hope this works.....I'm crossing my fingers! ;)
Sean
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Andrea, of course I killed the leopard myself, but I used a spear instead of my hands. ;D
...Hoo, but I miss the early 80's so much, those fun, fun teen age years ;)
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Andrea, of course I killed the leopard myself, but I used a spear instead of my hands. ;D
...Hoo, but I miss the early 80's so much, those fun, fun teen age years ;)
Manny you were still a Teenager in the 80's...........damn your a PUP!!!!!!!!
I grew up with Hendrix and Joplin....and Shrooms....and Stuff!!!!
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Yeah the 80's,...no rap and no cell phones, love it !!!!
The hair doos may heve needed a littke help ;D ;D
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The hair doos may heve needed a littke help ;D ;D
What do ya Mean about the Haircuts?
Dont mind Da Double Chin.......I lost da weight since then......not da Hair though!!!
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:D :D LOL, go dude
...Well the sinew patch is on, so is the backing, I'll get some overlays when i get back from work and I'll start bending some ;D
..Got some real good news from a different bow, I've being tillering this one with even worse damage, long deep tunnels on the bottom outher limb, ...well i took her to 60 # at 18" and she's doing just fine, now she's sweating at brace,....Yes I think that this nice snakey one will make it after all.
Ipe filled tunnels on the bow I'm tillering
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001-5-1.jpg)
sweating at brace
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002-5-1.jpg)
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Cool that snake is awesome looking. ;D ;D
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Hope that all works out Manny - I've got a bunch of hic stave with little tunnels all in em. Haven't decided whether to use it for bows or to cook meat yet.
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Hope that all works out Manny - I've got a bunch of hic stave with little tunnels all in em. Haven't decided whether to use it for bows or to cook meat yet.
I just built that 46 inch Plains Bow with the Bent tips from a Piece of Wood with Borer holes in it....aint scared are ya!!!!!!
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Nope! not skeered - just don't wanna do a lot of work on a peice of firewood ;D.
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That Bow I built...the holes are barely a 32nd of an inch wide....they werent grubs....maybe Beetles Larvae???
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Them grubs in mine are small but seem to be growing with time. I don't know where they came from - I peeled and sealed the staves and set em back to dry. Later on I noticed tunnels under the glue - It's like they were inside the wood and worked their way to the outside. I even ran one down about ten rings to find the end of it, but I don't think this hic will be making any bows. Oh well, I've got several good staves from Cracker to play with now. No Hic where I live..
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No Trees where I live.......unless you go out late at Night >:D
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Yep, I think she'll be a bow after all.
took her to 18" today, showing 45 #
She a touch strong in the lower limb, but that's minor since there still lots of work to do.
If I can get 55 # out of her would be fantastic, but I'd be happy with 50
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/001-2.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/002-2-1.jpg)
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that looks great! :) you are a superb bowyer
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Manny.....Lets see a Heads On Full Draw of that Sucker....I bet that is Scary!!!!
:P
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Looking nice Manny. Im glad it is working out. Patience ;D Justin
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MAN!! that's ugly!! ;D
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Nice work Manny, hopefully a little of that heartwood will be left on the belly...
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Got me thinking about a snaky guava stave thats in my basement.
Shes coming along nicely, Manny. 8) Pat
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Thanks david, ..but not really, I'm just a rookie that is lucky to be working witha very forgiving wood :)
Rich most of that heartwood will be left by the time I finish her, Im mainly side tillering rigth now.
Yeah Dano !
Justin, patience, reminds me of something ;D ;D
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Manny, that's looking great.
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Looks good Manny, I like em nice and straight like that :P
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Well, I shot her in extensevily today, starting from 18" draw to 23", I was using 830gr and I was really pleased by the way she shot them.
Than I took her to 25" on the tree, she showed 58 # at this point.
In the next couple of days I'll shoot her in and at doing this I'll take her to 26" which his what I was aiming for, sanding will be minimal, so I think she should finish easyly 58/59 # @ 26".
I'm really pleased since several times I was real close to thow her in the fire pile :o
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Glad ta hear it Manny, sure you'll post pic's of her bending :). Now there's hope for my bug eat hickory..
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Nice job,can't wait to see it all finished up.I had faith in you to pull it off. ;) :)
Pappy
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She felt so good shooting her in today tha I took her to 27", and she settled in at 60#,...I'm estatic and surprised at the same time, just about ready to start applying TRU OIL.
Ho yeah Cowboy, lot's of pictures coming, this one is special ;D
Thanks Pappy
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WOW!!!
Manny - somehow missed this post before! i'm impressed by your skills (sorry to be repetitive here...)
frank